carbine or rifle for home defense?

J

JB-man

New member
For short range (less than 50 yards) defense at home, can a rifle or carbine be too much power for 'homeland' defense? As I don't own any rifles nor carbines, I am curious, as they are more powerful than a pistol.
If there is already a thread on something like this, forgive my duplicate; the search isn't working.
 
50 yards is pretty far for house defense.

Especially since you don't already have any rifles, go shotgun.
 
$10 says somebody'll say "shotgun".:D

Ya, they may be a bit much at times, but what other excuse can you come up with to buy a nice FAL or HK?

So, PLEASE, shhhhhhhhh! Let's keep this under our hats.:D :p
 
I guess the 50 yds would be property management, but so would the legal entanglements...
Shotgun seems to be good option as well.
 
M1 Carbine, or else something like a Winchester Defender pump 12gauge.

If that's strictly for home defense. I have a very nice pump shotgun (Browning BPS 20gauge) named Diana, who sleeps underneath my bed. She's a very long barrel, so not really ideal for home defense, but if you are a bad guy, and I shunk her, and you hear her rack and you ain't running, well, she'll make your day really really bad. :D

She also is great when hunting season starts..

My other comment is, a nice .357Mag in a 4" barrel is something you might consider also. I have a snubbie 357 in a 2" barrel, and with 357 hollowpoints, she will drop you like 4th period french class.

Albert.
 
Consider the Carbine..

IMHO, the carbine is the most underrated firearm around. Somewhere along the line, the idea got started that a carbine was the "worst of both worlds." Not as potent as a rifle or shotgun, but not concealable like a handgun. That's just "glass is half empty" thinking. Here's the way I look at it.

A good carbine in .44 Magnum (lever of semi) will offer:

Vs. Rifle:
--Fewer overpentration concerns
--Ease and speed of aiming
--More Capacity
--Easier to manipulate at close quarters
--Easier to use when delivering a patented Duke Smackdown (see Rio Bravo for questions).
--Less recoil
--Less blast and flash

Vs. Shotgun:
--Easier to aim and far more accurate
--Easier to hit the correct target when dealing with a tangle of people (or a person and a dog).
--More Capacity
--Much less recoil
--Less chance of spraying the wrong target with shot
--Much less blast and flash

Vs. Handgun
--More powerful
--MUCH more accurate (fifty yards is no-miss with a good levergun)
--Much less recoil
--Greater capacity
--More effective as a close combat weapon.

The carbine/shotgun call is very close. The bottom line is, shoot what you'll be TOTALLY comfortable with at two AM when the window breaks and the dog goes nuts. For some that's a nice Mossberg, for others a Marlin 1894P or Win '92.
 
Moved to Art of the Rifle.

FWIW, my "social" rifle for around-the-house emergencies is a U.S. M1 Carbine, for all the reasons listed by Cosmoline.
 
Remington 870.

For "home defense" you would prefer a non-military rifle. Get called into court with a full-dress pre-ban and you are obviously a "anti-government vigilante survivalist neo-Nazi Constitutionalist extremist gun nut."

A standard M-1, Mini-14, or similar would be good. Or a match grade looking something, that your defense can say, "And my client JUST HAPPENED to have his target rifle that he uses for state shooting championships nearby, and was able to load it in time to save his life."
 
Carbine vs. Shotgun

I considered the same dilemma myself recently, and finally decided to use my M4 for home defense instead of a Mossberg 500. The reason? Several little ones, actually. The M4 is a better weapon overall in every aspect, aside from sheer terminal effectiveness of the round it fires. I figure since I can quickly follow one .223 Nosler with 29 more it isn't an issue. Yes the .223 has high penetration, but so does buckshot inside a house. Any round (or pellets) that misses will penetrate into the other room, so its a moot point. Besides, I can control where a single .223 bullet goes better than a mass of buckshot.

BTW, my M4 is nearly identical to what the local police keep in their patrol cars. If the police have a valid reason to own these kinds of guns then so do I (at least in my own home). I'm facing the same criminal element, after all.
 
Years ago...

I had an M1 Carbine for my first wife.
Essentially what Cosmoline said, or, in my words,

Thirty tries AND a bayonet!
 
Yeah well IF HCI/CPHV gets thier way.. we won't have handguns for home defense... so its back to shotguns and carbines.

Most rifle caliber weapons are just overkill unless you have walls made of cinderblocks (like my house). Overkill isn't a bad thing when your butt is against the wall.. however over penetration IS a bad thing.

At 20 feet #8 birdshot is still moving in a more or less solid mass.. thats like a Glaser slug that weighs an OUNCE at say.. 1100 fps?. You don't really need buckshot at close range, like inside a house.

Carbines? Anything from an M-1 to a Winchester will do. Make sure your long gun will FEED those specialty wonder pistol bullets you just bought. It would really suck to find out the feedramp on your model 94 won't handle hydrashocks at the last minute.

I'm gonna offer a STRANGE suggestion since you are new to rifles. Get a clip fed 22 caliber rifle. 22's are totally cheap to shoot, you will shoot more often, and thus LEARN how to shoot better. And a 22 fired from a rifle is deadly at close range, no its not a 357 or a 44 or a 45, but its small, lightwieght and easy to maintain. If you MUST get a bigger gun, get a carbine in a caliber you already own and practice. can you shoot in the dark? Reload without looking?

Just some stuff to think about.
 
.44 mag carbine BETTER be using prefrags if u

"think" it wont overpenetrate. A 223 sp is much more to the point, or an Sks and softpts, where the box mag auto is illegal. Dont sell out EITHER our box mags OR our autos. Pumps and levers will be NEXT on the anti's list, COUNT upon that.
 
ever FIRE a 12 ga in a small room?

Better have $250 electronic earmuffs lying next to that shotgun if you THINK it's a good home defense choice. body armor and a good flashlight, too.
 
JB-man, don't worry about past threads--there are many, but we're always happy to help.

My advice is to think about various scenarios you see as reasonable: Bad Guy in house; one?, more? BG in yard, with weapon...Other possibilities.

Think about the construction of your residence and the probable distances you'll need to deal with.

Who else is in the house with you? Are kids in another bedroom a concern? This affects your safe angles of shooting.

Inside a house, I know of nothing which WON'T penetrate sheetrock or faux-siding such as I have. (Well, maybe a lucky edge-on hit of a stud...)

For any 12-gauge shotgun, I'd prefer #9 Skeet, as it helps avoid hitting neighbors. Otherwise, any handy and quick-pointing shotgun or rifle/carbine.
If a carbine, I'd guess a .357, since the lighter bullet will slow down more quickly after a wall or three.

Again, think about your own situation and possible scenarios.

FWIW, $0.02, Art
 
Actually, the 223 has LESS penetration inside a house than a 9mm handgun. The Olympic Arms website has an article about this. This is one of the reasons why many LEO entry teams are going to the M4 version of the M16.

FWIW, if I had to keep a loaded rifle bedside, it would be my Mini 14. I don't wat to have to hold up my AR15 in civil court...
 
first,
FACT:

a shotgun inside a house will not "spray the wrong target." At that range, it's essentially a solid mass, as was noted. No different to aim. And that "claCLACK!" is a GOOD eye-opener.

Second, a normal shotgun is a lot less threatening in court, as was already discussed.

Third, inside, ANY large pistol, shotgun, or rifle is going to cause hearing trauma. Period. So don't even worry about it.

The .22 is actually a very good choice. A 10-22 can empty a lot of rounds in a hurry, that will shred the perp. Don't worry about "knockdown power." 1) it's a myth (see Thompson and LaGuardia), B) the .22s will dump most of their energy in the target. Game, set, match.


SPECULATION:
considering the velocity, the projectile shape, and cross-sectional density, I won't even begin to believe a 9mm out-penetrates a 5.56 until I see the experiment. Twice the velocity, 1/3 the cross section, in soft materials???

umm, no. Again, speculation, but I've fired a lot of both.
 
JB-Man, you're on the right track

A long gun is, in my opinion, the way to go for defensive purposes whether at home or in the field. I remember Jeff Cooper once writing that he would rather have an expert with a handgun after him than a piker with a rifle.

The shotgun is a great alternative but I finally settled on a carbine in .223 after it was suggested by Clint Smith of Thunder Ranch. As posted above, the .223 actually has less penetration than most other handguns and even shotguns. The M193 and Q3131 bullets (55 gr.) tend to break up.

As to weapons of choice it's really up to you. In my home state, the law is very clear on our right to use deadly force on intruders. Whether I use an AR15 or a 12 gauge quail gun does not matter. (In the field it may be an entirely different story.)

Just my 2 cents. jack
 
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