Cap and Ball Newbie Diary

B

bigbang121167

Inactive
Hi,

I am a keen shooter living just south of London in the UK. I enjoy target shooting and am a member of two clubs. I also enjoy shooting and talking with my father in law who lives in Oklahoma. He has been shooting since the age of six.

I am not new to shooting. I currently shoot an Anschuts .22 target rifle, a Ruger 10/22 .22 rifle and a Marlin .357. I have been loading my own ammunition for some time now for the Marlin and enjoy loading the ammo as much as shooting it.

I thought that as I am a newbie to black powder shooting that I would keep a diary of my exploits so that people could comment or laugh at my errors. I am assuming that I am not the only one out there that is just discovering cap and ball revolvers.

The members of my club have been very generous letting me shoot their pistols to see what I liked. The biggest bit of advice was to get a pistol with a full frame. This ruled out Colts as they said that they shoot loose after a wile. They also pointed out that the rear site is in the hammer so any play in the hammer will lead to a sighting error.

This limits me to a Remington or Rogers and Spencer.

After two visits to my club on black powder night and buzzing from all the advice I have purchased a Rogers and Spencer .44. It is a used gun that I found at a local dealer. Generally in very good condition but a couple of screws are scuffed and there is a slight mark on the barrel where the blue has worn. I am planning to fix these things over the next few weeks.

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That looks like a Fernwerbauh (sp?) copy. Probably the highest quality you could have found though the EuroArms are very fine too.
 
very nice

You are getting a fine revolver - congrats!

I wouldn't rule out Colt models though - the steel versions do not shoot loose - that is bull.

I would recomend an 1860 for a second purchase - Uberti would be my first pick.

My Pietta shoots great and right to point of aim windage-wise - is a little high of course - about "on" at 50 yards with a medium load.

Enjoy your new revolver!
 
Colt myth

Yeah, I saw that comment about open top Colts and didn't respond right away, but O.S.O.K. is right - that's BS.:barf: Your buddies at the gun club are way off base.

The facts are that the steel frame open top Colts will stay tight forever if treated respectfully, like any modern gun. And this is regardless of manufacturer, in my opinion. Brass framed open top or closed frame Colts or any other design will also. The myth about coming loose is from brass framed guns (closed or open top) that are abused by using "hot", or maximum loads over a long period of time. I suspect that the open top guns exhibit the problem before the closed top design, but both will get loose if abused. And any gun will react poorly to heavy abuse, steel or brass, open or closed frame.

The open top Colts are fine guns; I prefer them from an aesthetic point of view.

Having said that, your purchase of an R&S is a good one in any event. The issue is whether it suits your hand better than one of the Colts or a Remington, not whether one design or another "gets loose". If the R&S fits your hand and is comfortable to shoot, then good on ya! Enjoy!
 
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The sighting arrangements on the colt types is not a bad as it would appear. Sometimes, it helps to open the notch a bit for better visibility.
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You all remember the quote, by someone I don't remember, about only accurate guns being interesting? Well, mec, you've shown what that 1861 of yours will do enough times that I think it's real interesting. Where do you keep it when you're not around?;)

Steve
 
Its the rare revolver that is right on for elevation right out of the box. by the way, that pouch of bullets you sent me is in the lead picture on page 60 of the July GUNs Magazine.
 
I saw your post about that over on THR. The July issue wasn't out yet at my local store as of yesterday, so I'm still watching for it. If I'd known that pouch was going to be famous, I'd have made it a little better. I literally just threw it together to have something durable to send lead through the mail in.

Steve
 
Heck. I thought you bought it at some suttlers. the bullets/balls are the wrong size for the gun but it.s not really noticeable.
 
UK Boring Bit

Because of all the red tape here regarding firearms we have to have certain things in place before we can use black powder pistols. We have to have a special Black Powder Permit and another special permit to transport it. The permit to transport has to be issued by a separate government department (of course)! And can only be processed when you have the permit to purchase the stuff in the first place.

I don’t have too much of a problem with all the permits but when you’re itching to get down the range and try your new gun it gets a bit much.

I had my inspection from the local police force two weeks ago and passed with flying colours. Here we have to have a special box with segregated compartments for each container of powder, each with a 30% air gap above the container and a fire proof seal in the lid. The cupboard that it fits in is my reloading table that doubles as an out feed table for the table saw in my shop.

I attach the pictures of the one I had to build so that all of you that live in more sensible countries can have a laugh.

P.S. I still don’t have the permit as the Police Officer forgot to submit the paperwork.

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Does all that red tape make you angry or have you become resigned to it?

In my state, we had to get a permit to purchase a handgun from the sheriff of the county we live in. It's been like that for about 35 years or so. I just learned we have a new law going on the books, I believe on August 28, which repeals that permit requirement. I had become resigned to the whole permit b.s. and didn't realize how much it angered me until now when I dare to think about how easy it will be in the future.

I guess it does no good to kick the walls about it, but being treated like you are because you want to explore an obsolete 150 year old technology just isn't right!

Steve
 
Steve499,
You think that's a problem? You ought to live in So.CA. I bought an Uberti Henry Rifle today on GB. (the one with the Bear Paw track in brass tacks on the butt) and it is out of state. State of CA laws state that any cartridge firearm, in state or out, must be transferred between TWO FFL's. If the seller doesn't have one then he must transfer thru one at his end(buyer pays) and then it must be transfered thru the buyer's friendly FFL shop(if buyer doesn't have a FFL.). Not only that , buyer must pay a DROSS(background check) fee, plus transfer fee ,plus state "usage" tax(sales Tax). Then Buyer waits ten days. Luckily I bought a long gun and I don't have to wait to get the DROSS started until the gun gets here, I can do that tomorrow, but I don't know If the ten days starts tomorrow or when the gun gets to my FFl shop?

So sometime before July(Maybe) I'll have my new to me 1860 Henry in 45LC.
Soon to be converted to 44 Henry Flat C.F.(that cartridge, and the 44 Rem/Colt C.F I load, are almost identical with the exception of the Flat point is bigger dia than the 44 Rem. 44 Henry Flat was a Rim Fire, then they made it into a C.F. it's Dia was .446, the 44 Rem/Colt is .451 Old West Moulds will supply my mould.

My landlord has sold the ranch here and I'll have to move by Aug 15th, I was having misgivings about moving out of state.......not after today. I have bought my last Modern gun in CA.!

I'll stick to the pre-1898 Originals and the BP guns thank you!
 
Steve,

Another old Missourian here. I can remember when we just ignored the permits when trading among ourselves (mid 70's). I am darn glad to see the requirement going away. Most MO sheriffs were pretty good about getting the permit in your hand, that same day; but a few dragged it out as long as the law would allow. Come August it will be one less bit of control that the little tin dictators among them, can exert.

Mec,

Fine shooting, that. Keep the BP stuff coming along with anything else you care to write. I loved the book. Those of you with an interest in these things would do well to acquire a copy of Percussion Pistols and Revolvers by Mike Cumpston. It truly is a wealth of information on the history, performance and practical use of these wonderful and interesting firearms.

BigBang,

Excellent topic- and I'm glad to see that you are still able to enjoy handguns in one form or another.
 
So, Dragoon, move back to Missouri! Then, when you find that 1st generation Colt peacemaker for $35.00 in a pawn shop, you can walk out with it.:D

Steve
 
Rogers & Spencer First Outing

Well at last time has come to try my new toy. I still don’t have my powder permit but some friends at the range had agreed to front me the powder so that I could have a go.

I loaded 15 grains of powder topped off with semolina as filler. I used .454” round balls covered in grease. All supervised by Bob, a man who is probably older than black powder, who generously volunteered his time to coach me.

I have shot rifles for many years now but this is my first true outing with pistols. The first thing that I found was that even though I considered myself a fair shot, I have lots of bad habits.

Firstly all my shots went left. A friend watched me and said that as I squeeze the trigger I move my hand over to the left. I was totally unaware that I did this but with a rifle this can be masked with the stock against your shoulder and your hand on the front.

I am used to shooting with adjustable sights that you can zero in for an on target sight picture. No luck here as they are fixed. This means that I have to get used to a whole new sight picture that is largely dependent on judgment as the Rogers seems to fire very high on our 25 yard range.

The first thing that I was taught by my father when he was laboriously trying to teach me to shoot straight was breath control. It seems that I have forgotten most of this lesson because I found myself concentrating so hard that I had forgotten to breath.

The one thing in my favour is that due to experience I firmly believe that all the above is my fault and not the fault of the gun. Anyone new to shooting could become quickly disheartened and give up. The moral being, ask a friend at the range for advice. I did!

Below is the first target. The astute of you will count 7 holes. I cant lie it took more than one go to come up with a score like that. Actually I shot 18 rounds to get 7 holes.

Well at least I am honest………….LOL

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I'm not a great revolver shooter, but I know some others who are and do it quickly and accurately. This technique doesn't work for everyone, but it has helped many people to shoot on target, especially when they are shooting double action revolvers with their longer trigger pulls.
The main thing is to wrap the thumb of your non-dominant hand around the back of your dominant hand and squeeze, applying pressure just to the inside of where your other thumb joint is located. Also, try to apply upward finger pressure up toward the bottom of the pistol grip with at least the last 2 fingers of your non-dominant hand, at the same time that you're firmly squeezing with the wrapped thumb.
This should help to steady the muzzle as you squeeze the trigger. It might take some time to adjust your fingers to be comfortable, but give yourself a chance to get the hang of it. And if it doesn't work at first, try it again later when you feel like experimenting.
If you've already tried it, don't give up on it. It might work with some guns and not others depending on the size of the grip, or your personal preference for gripping the gun. But it's an alternative way to grip a pistol when trying to improve accuracy & consistency.

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Sounds like advice worth trying...thanks

Thanks for the advice Arcticap. I will give it a try next week.

Here people are taught to shoot with one hand as most competitions require that stance. I am right handed so I was holding the pistol in my right hand with my left hand in my pocket. You are taught to do that so that your left hand has something to do instead of just hanging around. The Rogers & Spencer was a bit much for me to handle one handed first time out but the experienced shooters seem to have no problem.

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I wasn't aware that you were going to be shooting the revolver one handed or in competition. I shoot air pistol and a semi-auto .22 in competition one handed. But I also shoot a revolver and semi-auto's in falling plate matches which is strictly a furious speed and accuracy event.
While most guys fall into the category of using good target technique and holding their grip lightly while shooting one handed, I on the other hand fall into the other camp of holding my grip very tightly.
When I shoot any gun two handed, I often apply inward pressure with the thumb of my dominant hand against the side of the grip to increase the amount of lateral stability & support. Mostly because the grips aren't anatomical style target grips. If I leave enough room around the grip while trying to form a fist around the grip, I can lock my hand around the grip better to stabilize the gun this way. Most of these guns don't have target triggers either, and the recoil also needs to be controlled by using the hand's muscle power. You can see I'm intentionally keeping my thumb down and pressing inward on the grip. This isn't considered to be proper target form, but I use the method that works for me.
Even when shooting one handed, I definitely prefer holding my revolvers and guns without anatomical grips with my thumb in more of the down position while squeezing inward... pretty firmly too.
But you do exhibit great "proper" target shooting form, far better than me! :D
Good luck with the revolver shooting...:)
 
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