Can't select good hunting rifle/cartridge

I

inFAM1S

Inactive
Hi, new here and was hoping to get some help sorting an issue I am having with hunting rifles and cartridges.

I am new to hunting this year, and i live in Colorado. We have some great wildlife here and I have always wanted to hunt but never got into it. Basically, here is my conundrum. I need a good rifle for deer, elk, moose, antelope etc... as well as part of my prep kit for long range encounters.

For cartridge i have narrowed it to;
.308
30-06
300 Win Mag
7mm Rem Mag

I am leaning toward 30-06 the most. Magnums just seem too powerful, and un-fun to shoot regularly. However they have their benefits as long range power houses.

As for Rifle, i am not willing to spend more than $700 and would prefer less than that, as this is my first, but more than likely not my last so splurging is not really something i want to do on my first date... ;) I like tactical and synthetic style stocks, and no less than 20" barrel (I have an "18 SPR build planned)

I have narrowed rifle choice to;
Remington 700 series
Savage Axis XP or 11/111 10/110
Howa M-1500

I would prefer a rifle/scope combo, as scopes are EXPENSIVE and I am again not wanting to splurge at this point (maybe later). Any other options for rifles would be welcomed as well, I can talk tac rifles and ARs all day long, but hunting rifles are new to me.
Thanks All!
 
Of the cartridges you listed, the only one I would consider is 30-'06.
Another worthy cartridge is 270 Winchester.
I expect you could find a used but excellent Leupold 3-9x40 for about $150.00 with the same lifetime warranty as new.
Of the rifles you mentioned, I'm more familiar with the Remington 700; a good rifle, but with some trigger/safety issues on some of them.
I prefer a Winchester model 70.
 
There are a lot of outstanding combinations.At this point,I'd say trust what you already figured out,pretty much.
I have lived in Colorado since 1966.You have not made any bad choices.I would certainly endorse your choice to not jump into a magnum.

It isn't necessary.You are more likely to develop a flinch,especially if you mount a low buck short eye relief scope and crawl up on it a bit.Generally getting your glasses broke and your eyebrow cut is good for a case of the squint and jerks.

Myself..I'd be leary of the scope/rifle package deals.Doing you a favor is not the plan.Decide if that scope would stand on its own as a scope you want to buy.There is no economy in buying a junk scope,because you'll have to replace it .

There is,IMO,a trend these days to think "more is better" in a scope.

It can be argued.I get outnumbered,but 'way back in 19 and 66,last Century,the deer and elk and antelope and everything else in this state was taken quite well with a 30-06 that had a 4x scope mounted on it,typically a Weaver K-4.I'm not suggesting the weaver is the top choice.I can tell you plenty of us used them OK.There are probably better choices today.

Last time I went pronghorn hunting I chose my Springfield with an old Lyman Alaskan 2 1/2 x scope on it.300 yds it was fine.I think they quit making them eary 50's.

A fairly light,compact scope IMO,is a LOT less clunky in the woods.If you are not spending a lot,fewer moving parts,seals,glue joints and complexity make a fixed x more dependable and rugged...yeah,I know,spend enough and you get a rugged variable.

Other folks will likely recommend specifics.I'm being vague because it just does not matter all that much.Had you chosen a .270,280,etc I'd have given you the same feedback.Had you chosen Savage or Ruger or Tikka or..any sound tool,same!.
 
Cant select good hunting rifle/cartridge

I can not argue with the 30-06 / win. 70 this was my go to for many years then my wife took it over.
If you are going to reload you might look at the .300 W.M. My currant favorite
is a modified Ruger all weather (19 in.bbl.) and some smoothing out.
This is loaded to suit the occasion i.e whitetail deer 150 gr, Hor. at 2800 fps.
Just something to think about ,to me reloading is almost as much fun as shooting.
TGR
PS. I tend to favour scopes in the 2-7 x 32/33 for all around use.
 
30-06 will serve you well but at the distances you want to shoot I would accept a scope/rifle combo.

I buy a lot of Tasco, Bushnell and Simmons scopes knowing that I only trust them in the 150-200 range max but hope for 50 yard shots.

If it really matters I would say that to get a scope that I would trust for 300 yards you're looking in the $200-300 range.

Buy the rifle you want and then outfit it with the scope of your choice. The 700 is a great choice. But don't forget the used market. There are some great older rifles that need loving too. In fact this one is in your back yard.

http://www.armslist.com/posts/3896933/denver-colorado-rifles-for-sale--remington-700-adl-30-06

And here's a Model 70
http://www.armslist.com/posts/36810...s-for-sale--winchester-model-70-30-06-post-64

And another 700
http://www.armslist.com/posts/3781087/denver-colorado-rifles-for-sale--remington-model-700-in-30-06

Don't forget to haggle a little too.
 
I like all of your cartridge choices, each has proven itself time after time. If me I would opt for the 7mm Remington Magnum, it offers much better ballistics than the 308 and 30-06 with not much more recoil than the 30-06. The 300 Winchester Magnum is an awesome cartridge but does kick significantly more.

For the rifles you've again listed some nice choices. You hear good and bad about the R700 but that is mostly related to quality control, not the overall design or function. Savage 110 and 111's are well respected. They are not beauty queens but are functional, accurate rifles. I've only shot 1 Axis and I was not impressed at all with it, the trigger pull was outrageous in my opinion. Spend the extra money and get an AccuTrigger model. As for the Howa, I own/shoot a Weatherby Vanguard S2 (made by Howa) and am very impressed with it. Crisp two stage trigger, three position safety, and very accurate. Handle each one before you buy, see how they shoulder and feel to you, then make up your mind.

As for glass I'm a believer in buying the best you can afford. Quality scopes are expensive but you tend to get what pay for. For that reason I've always stayed away from the combo deals as they usually put the cheapest scope they can on the rifle. My opinion is to buy once cry once when it comes to scopes.
 
Thanks for all the input everyone!

I am wanting to go out to no more that 300m, but want to be closer if possible (as always, less distance = easier shot). I also still need to practice at this distance, but also, I am looking at this as a survival weapon too. I have found some decent scope/rifle packages (least i think) with some decent scopes 3-9x40 Bushnells or Leopolds (i know, not the best, but i think it will get me through a season (hopefully). Ive found some decent used rifles/scopes at my local Cabela's, and theyre always changing.

I was looking at the Savage models with the Accutrigger only, I've heard lots of bad things about the base triggers.

My draw with the 7mm is i havent been able to find it in a rifle with a barrel shorter than 26", but i did abandon my search for that cartridge.

I intend to get into reloading at some point in my life. I think hunting, shooting, reloading and several other things can be something i pass down to my kids (have 3 boys).

I wish i could afford a Nightforce NXS scope, but thats a bit down the road.

Remington 700s have me a little spooked unfortunately, A 700 in 7mm RM was my number 1 pick for a while, but when the trigger recall happened (even though it may not have been totally Rems fault) I pushed them a little further down on the list.

I appreciate all the help everyone. But I am still having issues comparing if one is better than the other, and if so, by how much. I have compared ballistic tables, ammo cost, availability, and use in reloading. And i am still unable to determine a clear winner.
 
To 300 yds, .308 is the best choice of the ones you have listed, IMHO.
Can be found in pretty much any store that sells ammo (not saying the others can't)
Usually cheaper than 30/06, and definitely cheaper than 7mm/300mag
Will give you virtually the same performance (speed/energy) as the 30/06. Close enough that a max range of 300yds will yield maybe 2", at most, of deviation from one to the other. Probably closer to 1"...
Uses same bullets as the 30/06, of which there are Plenty of bullet options to suit the occasion
Reloading will be cheaper and use less powder
Easier on the shoulder, why punish yourself if you don't have to?
typically found in hunting rifles with 20-24" barrels of varying weights.

Savage, 10/11/16 (Non Axis) gets my vote for the platform. Will have a better stock and more refined build than the Axiss II for not much more money.

Happy hunting!
PS
 
My draw with the 7mm is i havent been able to find it in a rifle with a barrel shorter than 26", but i did abandon my search for that cartridge.
Click to expand...

That is because 7mm mag is one of those cartridges that really benefits from a longer barrel - both in terms of reaching its potential (which is considerable) and in shootability (below 24 or so inches the muzzle blast is horrendous).
 
A .308 will do all you say you want to do, and will come in a rifle light enough to actually carry around all day, without excessive recoil.

Don't get caught up on choosing by "brand"
Choose by how they FEEL when you handle them
 
Nothing wrong with a 30-06, but modern 308 loads will beat 30-06 loads from the 1950's by a good 100fps. They'll beat WW-1 era loadings by 200 fps. If the 30-06 was enough gun then, the 308 is enough gun today. It'll come in a lighter more compact package with less recoil too. If you want to shoot elk, and at ranges beyond 400 yards the extra speed the 30-06 offers will be somewhat of an advantage. At closer ranges, or on smaller game there is no real difference.

The magnums will offer a little more power at longer ranges, but at the expense of higher ammo costs and greater recoil. With the best loads on elk the 308 is probably adequate for 400 yards, the 30-06 around 450-500, and the 2 magnums 500+. Provided the shooter is good enough, most aren't good enough to take full advantage of the 308.

No major issues with your rifle choices. I like Howa best, but it is the heaviest of the bunch, by a fair margin. That would be a concern in Colorado altitude and the rugged country there. I prefer something a little lighter.

Sounds like you are working with a limited budget. In your shoes I'd buy one of these. Street price is around $550 incuding the scope, around $350 witout the scope, and that is a very decent scope. No need to replace unless you just want to. Almost a pound and a half lighter with a scope on it than the Howa is without a scope. That would make the Howa about 2.5-3 lbs heavier after you get it scoped. These are proving to be extremely accurate. Mine are .5-.75" shooters, I've seen some 1" 300 yard groups posted by a very reliable source shooting one of their 308's.

http://ruger.com/products/americanRifleRedfield/models.html

The Savage 11/111 would be my 2nd choice.
 
This is probably one of the most challenging decisions I have had to make. I have mostly narrowed down to 30-06 and .308. For some reason I wanted to steer away from .308 because I have an SPR build in the works, that will be using .308, so it seemed to make sense to me to steer away from it has a hunting cartridge.

The 30-06 seems to lend itself to more custom loads than the 308. I am not sure the energy transfer that will be needed to down the largest game here. I would imagine and have been told that the 30-06 has enough, and being that the 308 is just a hair under in terms of velocity and energy, it would be barely enough.

I dont want to be in a situation where I am under powered, in case of a bear, or something. Perhaps i need to spend some time at the LGS shouldering files and comparing cartridges.
 
These types of threads are always fun. All good advice here. You could probably select any response here at random, and do just fine by following it.

Personally, I tend to side with "pathfinder" and would choose a .270 win, especially since you are throwing antelope into the mix. Some think the .270 is a little light for elk, but it will work with proper bullet selection.

As for the rifles you are considering, I would choose the Howa or the weatherby vanguard (essentially the same rifle). I'm sure you can get the howa's in a rifle/scope combo. I think the howa's give the best return for quality and accuracy versus cost.

I'm an old timer and identify with "HiBC". When I started hunting in the late 50's, we thought a steel tubed weaver K6 was a long range scope. However, I must admit that the ubiquitous 3x9's of today, pretty much cover every situation. Half the fun of getting a new firearm, is in the selection. Enjoy.
 
In the typical off-the-shelf rifle of today's world, a 22" barrel seems to be the most common.

In such a case, the .308 is pretty much the ballistic equal of the '06. For one who handloads and has an '06 with a 24" to 26" barrel, it is readily superior to the .308.

Lotsa elk been eaten from using a .308. :)
 
I like posts like these as well. They make for good conversation.

As for 270 i have thought about it, but it never made the cut in my book, not sure why. It just seems to have been filtered out in my examination of the rounds. Much like the 25-06. Gut feeling i guess.

Maybe rather than brand of rifle i should be looking at barrel length, i would like to get it fitted for a suppressor and/brake at some time, and a super long barrel, just doesnt sound very maneuverable.
 
Short barrel and future suppressor = .308...

All of the other cartridges will suffer in performance from shorter barrels.
Because you have a future SBR planned in .308 is a good reason to buy a hunting rifle in .308. Ammo commonality is a good thing!

Not sure who told you 30/06 is barely enough for elk out to 300yds, but that is wrong... Bullet selection is more important than caliber used. 30/06 is more than sufficient, as is .308... Use a 165gr-180gr bonded or solid copper bullet made for max penetration, put it in the boiler room, then go collect your prize...
 
I've always been a short action fan, so the .308 would get my vote as well.

Granted, I carried a .30/06 when I was stationed in Colo. Springs, but back then the budget Winchester Model 70 (all I could afford) wasn't available in short action chamberings and I was a poor enlisted puke with a wife and three hungry boys.

My hunting partner carried a .270 for Elk, but used a .243 for Mule Deer and Antelope. He never had a problem with clean kills.

Where we hunted (Arapaho Nat'l Forest), 300 yards line of sight (ridge to ridge - couldn't see that far when in the trees) could mean a half mile on foot (up hill for half that)... that's a loonnnnggg way to drag an Elk carcass.
 
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I'd look for the Savage 10/11/16, probably the Weather Warrior (the 16/116) in 30-06. Another great rifle you may want to consider is something from Tikka.

For a scope, I would look at either a Nikon Monarch 3 or a Leupold VX3. They are both excellent scopes at their price points. For a little less cash, the Prostaff5 or the VX2 are also very decent scopes.


The .308 is a very effective hunting cartridge (in fact it significantly outnumbers the other chamberings put together up at our "deer camp" in Northern Wisconsin) but you have a few more options for heavier loads with the 30-06.
 
I prefer a 24" barrel, which is what my 270 wears. 22" would be an acceptable minimum and would work well with 30-'06. But the magnums really need a longer barrel to live up to what's expected from them. I have never actually owned a 308 or 30-'06 yet, so I compare them without the favoritism of my dog is better than yours. In my view, their equality lies mostly with medium weight bullets and lighter. In moving to heavier bullets, the 30-'06 leaves the 308 behind and the heavier the bullet the greater the difference. An often overlooked fact is that the 308 operates at higher pressures, similar to the 270 Winchester and the magnums. For the handloader, assuming you aren't loading for a questionable old Springfield or an M1 , but rather a modern rifle like a Remington 700 or Winchester model 70, it is not unsafe to load 30-'06 ammo to the same pressure as a 308. And then the performance advantage of the 30-'06 is even greater. It's not like loading for an M1 Garand.....
FWIW, the magazine capacity is greater with 30-'06 than the magnums.
 
Don't buy into the fib that the 30-06 is marginal for elk over 300 yards. That is a meme that has sprouted with the idea that you can't shoot a mule deer with a 243. The 30-06 an 308 will both fill the bill for what you are looking for.
 
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