Can't get a rifle on paper at 100 yards

M

mapsjanhere

New member
I bought a Weatherby Vanguard in 243 Winchester and mounted a Leupold VX-1 with Leupold base and rings. Trying to sight it I first started out with 100 gr Winchester. Centered at 25 yards, nowhere near the paper at 100 (should be 3" high according to JBM). Well, maybe the rifle doesn't like the 100 gr bullets, it's the max for the twist rate. This weekend, box of 80 gr Winchester, same deal, after 20 rounds I have 10 holes in the targets, the best "group" was 4 out of 5 on an 8x11 sheet.
The gun seems to hit fine at 25 yards, so I don't seem to have a loose scope. The holes I get on paper are not keyholes, so I seem to stabilize the bullets. Nevertheless the gun is useless currently, so I'm soliciting any ideas what might be wrong and where to start with a fix.
 
I agree that something ain't right. If you're centered at 25 yards, you should be on paper at 100. Have you tried 50 yards? 75?

I doubt it's the rifle and the VX-1 is a good hunting scope. I'd focus on the mounting system.

Or, something that's helped me in the past.... get bigger paper.
 
Your problem is quite severe. There is something seriously wrong if you can barely get 4 shots on an 8x11 sheet of paper at 100yds. I do not believe there is a vanguard made that won't group around 2" or better. Could be a defective rifle ala crown or bedding of barrell, etc. Are these factory rounds or reloads?
I take the bolt out of my 70 &700's look down the bore, align my scope and get it close to the bull at 100yds. Possibility of defective scope. VX-1 is Leupolds bottem end scope. Clean barrel well . If none of this works, you need toeither send the gun to a gunsmith or return it. Good luck. The excitement of rifleshooting is often in the trouble shooting.
 
I threw a roll of packing paper in the trunk for the next trip already, going for a 3ft x 6 ft target ;). The scope/mount/base was my first suspect, but I fired a couple rounds at the 25 yards target in between 100 yards attempts and the POI didn't seem to have changed.
 
I could be the only person who likes them, but the Sight Mark barrel lazers save me a lot of shooting just getting on the paper. They are about thirty bucks and look just like a bullet which goes in your chamber. It uses button batteris and projects a red lazer beam throught your barrel and onto the target. They recommend you bore-sight with it and your scope at about 20 to 30 yards. I just put a new scope on my .243, and I had a nice grouping with the scope after six rounds.

The Sight Mark is also great to zero in a Crimson Trace system. It helped me with my Crimson Trace on my Beretta 92FS Inox.
 
I would say start at 25 and work the target out, adjust as you go, until you find where the problem starts, then go to your desired zero distance once you have the problem worked out.....but, you may have a problem the 100 yard mark should be just a fine tuning or verification of your 25 yrd zero. many times the 25 yd zero is good enough.

The 3x6 foot target is actually a good idea you can see if its grouping good and just way off, or if you are making shot gun patterns.
 
Every rifle theoretically should have two zero points, first one when the bullet is rising above the line of sight and the second one when the bullet is dropping below the line of sight, so if your dead on at 25yds you should be 2.82" high at 100yds and dead on again around 250yds, but what if your elevation is set so high as to where at 25yds you are catching your first and only zero another words at 25 its peaked out and dropping from that point on, that would put you way below at 100yds......just a thought.
 
Palmetto,

If what you are saying is true, the round should be impacting the ground long before reaching 100 yards. . .right?

There would have to be some really gross errors in scope alignment for that to happen.

I am not sure I follow you. Not saying you are wrong, but it is not clear to me how what you say would be true.

Geetarman:confused:
 
I had a Winchester M70 in 243, absolutely new rifle.

Shot awful, so I bedded the action.

Still shot awful, so I swapped scopes, checked scope bases, changed rings.

Still shot awful, tried factory 100 grain ammo, shot maybe 3 " group at 100 yards, the best it ever shot.

Tried 100 grain, 85 grain bullets, probably some others, all with IMR 4350.

Still shot awful.

Tried it in a McMillian target stock, still shot awful.

Left the action in the target stock and sent off to the gunsmith for rebarreling. Now the thing is in 308 and it shoots just great, out to 1000 yards.

Maybe it was the barrel. All I know is that I don't like 243 and will never buy another.
 
Maybe it was the barrel. All I know is that I don't like 243 and will never buy another.
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Not the caliber for certain the 243 is one of the best, check scope, mount, stock, barrel, my process for problems like this.
 
Is your rifle new? If not, it may very well be a shot-out barrel. .243 is a relatively hot round and I've seen my share of shot-out .243's. The rifling may look fine at first glance but down near the chamber could have several inches of smooth-bore. Inspect the rifling from the chamber end and be sure the rifling has a nice sharp bevel where it starts. Not a gradual slope.
 
My money is on there being an alignment issue with the rings and bases... A simple trick is to look through the scope and get it on target, then pull the bolt out and look through the barrel and see what you see...
 
I would start with
Check action to stock fit
Re torque action screws to spec
Re check scope mount/s for fit and level
Re install scope check for fit and level use X pattern to torque screws

Take to range.
If problem is still present time to check scope
Simple enough if you have another scope available then switch and try. If it solves the problem great. If not then you need to exchange the original scope.

Or shoot the box method to check windage and elevation turrets.
 
What I would do is try a 30"X30" target at 50 yards. If it doesn't find paper, take a few steps closer to the target (make sure the rest of the range is cold :eek: ), if that doesn't make paper, a few more steps until you are finding paper. Take some more shots from that position to determine what the POI is and make adjustments with the scope. Then go back to the bench and try 100 yards again.
BTW, I once had a rifle in .243 with a light barrel. After the first shot it wouldn't find paper until it had cooled for an hour.
 
Every rifle theoretically should have two zero points, first one when the bullet is rising above the line of sight and the second one when the bullet is dropping below the line of sight, so if your dead on at 25yds you should be 2.82" high at 100yds and dead on again around 250yds, but what if your elevation is set so high as to where at 25yds you are catching your first and only zero another words at 25 its peaked out and dropping from that point on, that would put you way below at 100yds......just a thought.
Click to expand...

with the trajectory of anything other than a thrown rock, that would be impossible.
Think about it... the bullet would have to rise at least 1.5" to break the line of sight, then peak out, and drop back down through the line of sight ... all in less than 25 yards? :rolleyes:
 
If you're centered at 25 yards, you should be on paper at 100. Have you tried 50 yards? 75?
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Have you tried this? If the problem is not obvious, time to start trying to narrow down the options. If 25 "works" and 100 "doesn't" need to see what is happening between the two. Having targets with holes in em at different distances can sometimes tell you much.

If possible use a different scope from a different rifle that you know works. I would start with this first. Take the scope out of the equation as a variable.

Also picking up several weights and brands of ammo might help.

And just to clarify, we are talking "rested" shooting; bi-pod, sandbags, etc...
 
Set 4 targets up at 25,50,75, and 100 yards. Align all the bulls up perfectly. Shoot the 25 and see where the round goes thru each target. Adjust accordingly. :D.

Obviously I'm kidding man but who knows it may work. I hope everything works out. I know how it feels having a rifle that wont hit where aimed. I gave a .270 to my dad that I got tired of fooling with. He still tinkers with it from time to time. He almost has it right. Don't give up. You got a good gun when it gets right.
 
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