Canibilizing trap/ bird rounds to make others

L

Lhigginsqrb

New member
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Is anyone doing this? I have probably 500 assorted rounds with number eight shot. Squirrel and rabbit hunting rounds are scarce this year. I have enough I’m just playing around with this concept. I’d like to break down let’s say 100 federal rounds. And Load them with number six shot. I have plenty of powder but for this project I’m not going to use it. I’m trying to determine what powder is in these rounds so that I can find a recipe using it. I know the primers hulls and wads will match. Id just be upping The powder load and changing out the shot.

Also does anyone have a recommendation for how to open up the rounds without destroying them?
 
Last edited:
First, please read this sticky thread. Changing commercial loads falls into the category of the unknown that the thread warning is intended to cover. I have put it into your post for you, but please remember to do it yourself in the future.

It is destroying the shotgun and maybe part of you that you need to worry about with this project. Here are the factors to consider:

Since shotguns are thinner steel than a lot of metallic cartridge firearms, the maximum proof loads are only at about the maximum pressure for standard loads in 45 Auto, and the maximum commercial loading pressure for 2½ and 3" shells is only 11,500 psi. For 3½" it 14,000 psi.

You will be working with an unknown powder. Many different powders are indistinguishable by appearance alone, and the medium to large scale ammunition manufacturers have access to a lot of powders that aren't available to handloaders because no powder company that distributes to handloaders has felt it worth the investment to develop a reference characteristic lot for a canister grade version of the powder for load recipes and to work up the load data for it. And even if you did know what kind of powder it is and what the canister grade version was, the commercial loaders use bulk grades for longer shelf life, and bulk grades have wider burn rate tolerances and cannot be counted on to be a match to published load data except by accident. Commercial makers can use the wider burn rate tolerance because they measure pressure to determine a safe charge for each lot of powder and don't depend on recipes data.

The powder in your existing loads may be a fast powder that reaches maximum pressure before enough of it is present to reach the higher velocities achieved with a larger charge of a slower powder, so you may have no room for increasing the charge without going over-pressure. This may have been done because the lower charge weight is more economical for the manufacturer, as it uses a lighter charge.

So, where you are with a project like this is you need to exercise extreme caution. Personally, because of the low pressure limits and unknown powder involved, I wouldn't do it without pressure measuring equipment on my gun to determine that your load is within safe pressure limits, stays within the 4500 psi shot-to-shot extreme pressure variation that SAAMI standards allow for, and that you don't have a powder that gets "spiky" (produces erratic high pressures) as you increase the load. This video demonstrates the instrument at the end of that first link being used on a shotgun.
 
I would think replacing the #8 shot with the same weight of #6 would eliminate any need to mess with the powder.

As for opening the shells, I've used a small slotted/flathead screwdriver-- the kind with the tapered blade end, rather than a gun screwdriver, to pry the factory crimp Then I widen it with smooth jaw needle nose pliers-- primarily using them closed to just poke into the opening and enlarge it.

I usually managed to bung up a small percentage of the case lips so they wouldn't re-crimp and seal perfectly. A drop of caulk or silicone sealer fixed the shot leak though. I'm sure that disrupted the pattern some. I also tried some old cardboard overshot disks but that made the internal load height too tall.
 
Last edited:
Agree with ChasHam, no need to do anything beyond replacing the lead #8 shot with the same weight of lead #6 shot for squirrel/rabbit loads.

Don
 
If all the OP is doing is dumping out the #8 and refilling w/ #6, just fill the shotcup to the same level and crimp.
(The #6 will pack as lighter weight anyway)


.
 
Last edited:
Thanks guys. I’d like to get that pressure thing one day but if there’s no consistent load data I’ll just replace the shot. Should get the job done.
 
You're hunting rabbits and squirrels and you want to use #6...you must have some BIG ones around you. When I used to hunt them used 8's or 9's...they didn't know the difference and they dropped just as hard. 6's are a little over kill, but that's me.
 
Mini gun. I’ve never tried anything smaller than a 6. That’s been the go to for at least 4-5 generations for us. I never questioned it. But you”ve got me thinking. I’m pretty certain a number 8 could drop a rabbit at mid range. For a long shot I wouldn’t trust it much. I could be wrong. Dad claims it puts too many pellets in them but that my number 5s do too much damage. I like how the 5s do at long range at higher speed on rabbits.

The squirrels are another story. We hunt thick woods. I like shooting them out of oaks but they don’t always go into the trees I want them too. We have a lot of tall hickory’s with potentially several layers of leaves between me and the squirrel. They start climbing up when I start shooting. The first one or two might be low but after that they’re at the top of the tree. Grey squirrels are tough. They don’t die easy like a rabbit. I like clean kills, I don’t want them to suffer. So 8s might do the job short range. Longer range and especially in those hickory’s through the leaves I need at least a 5 to drop them clean. Just my opinion.

I may experiment with the 8”s. I’m trying to set up an o/u for this purpose. Maybe a modified choke And not a lot of powder in the first barrel for when I jump a rabbit in brush. A full choke with number five for my longer shot. I’m still playing with all these loads and you really never know what situation you’re gonna find yourself in. I’ve had two squirrels pretty much jump on my dad‘s head trying to avoid me. Didn’t want to risk the shot so they got away
 
When I say long shot on a rabbit I’m talking 80 or more yards. I know a lot of people don’t even attempt that shot but we get a lot at that distance in the fields. The squirrels can be the same distance.
 
At that distance the 8's will be a handicap. I was just thinking both are pretty thinned skin and it won't take much, however forgot about the pellets. I never hunted squirrels with shotgun, always a 22.
 
Lhigginsqrb said:
CAUTION: The following post (or a page linked to) includes or discusses loading data not covered by currently published sources of tested data for this cartridge (QuickLOAD or Gordon's Reloading Tool data is not professionally tested). USE AT YOUR OWN RISK. Neither the writer, The Firing Line, nor the staff of TFL assumes any liability for any damage or injury resulting from the use of this information.

Is anyone doing this? I have probably 500 assorted rounds with number eight shot. Squirrel and rabbit hunting rounds are scarce this year. I have enough I’m just playing around with this concept. I’d like to break down let’s say 100 federal rounds. And Load them with number six shot. I have plenty of powder but for this project I’m not going to use it. I’m trying to determine what powder is in these rounds so that I can find a recipe using it. I know the primers hulls and wads will match. Id just be upping The powder load and changing out the shot.

Also does anyone have a recommendation for how to open up the rounds without destroying them?
Click to expand...
Nothing wrong with using number 6 shot on rabbits and squirrels.
 
Lhigginsqrb said:
Also does anyone have a recommendation for how to open up the rounds without destroying them?
Click to expand...

You'll have to figure that out on your own like I did, let's just say I use none of whatever sold online from a couple of well known shot shell reloading sites.

I can cut mine within 1/8 of what the factory crimp is, any lower and it's a hit and miss if it cycles. You doing birdshot I'm doing steel slingshot a.k.a. buckshot at .31 cal.

And I'm using everything else and you better make damn sure you know what that powder is before start mixing up things. If you need to up the charge for the load weight, just waste one and add the powder from that one.
 
1. Do NOT add powder. IF you believe you need more power, use those #5 shells. Changing/messing with powder charges can turn your shotgun into a grenade QUICKLY.
2. Remove the #8s or #5s, whatever the case may be and replace with same weight or less of #6s. Note: your loading manual specifies HULL, PRIMER, POWDER, WAD, SHOT WEIGHT, not shot size. 1 1/8 oz does not vary for 8s, 6s, 5s or any others.
3. 6s has been our go to for squirrel, for generations. 7 1/2s work to about 40, maybe 50 yards.
In thick Spring foliage, a .410 loaded with 4s is good medicine.
 
Well the reason for the larger shot sizes is to get more complete penetrations and less pellets in the meat. Nothing wrong with using #2 shot on either.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top