canadian Gun Laws in Trouble

WAGCEVP

New member
By JILL MAHONEY
Globe and Mail Update


Edmonton - As many as half Canada's gun owners could be in violation of
federal law on Jan. 1, the deadline for obtaining firearms licences.

So far, 1.7 million people have enrolled with the federal government's
gun registry. The exact number of Canadians possessing firearms is
unknown but estimates range from fewer than 3.3 million to as many as
nine million.

In any case, it appears that far more people own guns than are
participating in the registry under the controversial legislation, still
often referred to by its legislative name, Bill C-68.

"They've got a heck of a mess on their hands," Jim Hinter, president of
the National Firearms Association, said. "I think it proves that there's
literally millions of Canadians who are just refusing to participate in
what they see as a bogus law."

As of Jan. 1, gun owners without licences cannot buy ammunition.
Penalties for someone found possessing a firearm without the proper
paperwork range from temporary seizure of the weapon to five years in
prison.

The application of the law promises to be uneven. Police forces across
the country are responsible for enforcing it, but are deeply divided in
their support. Provincial Crown attorneys are charged with prosecuting
alleged offenders, but Alberta and some other provinces that disagree
with the legislation want federal Crowns to handle prosecutions.

From its inception, the Firearms Act has been a target of heavy
opposition. A group of provincial and territorial governments, led by
Alberta and supported by gun organizations, challenged the law all the
way to the Supreme Court, but failed in June when that court ruled the
legislation constitutional.

The licensing and registration program has cost $327-million, since the
law's passage in 1995, to April 1, 2000. The law requires that all
owners of long guns (rifles and shotguns that had been previously
exempt) obtain possession licences by Dec. 31, 2000, or after their
existing firearms acquisition certificates expire. Then, by Dec. 31,
2002, people must register each of their guns, a provision that is even
more controversial than licensing.

The government has run an extensive advertising campaign. It plans
large ads in newspapers in major cities this weekend reminding people
they must get their licences, which are selling for a reduced rate of
$10 to encourage compliance. In recent months, it has set up booths in
malls to help people with their applications.

The issue of how many Canadians own guns is itself controversial. The
National Firearms Association contends the number is between seven
million and nine million, or nearly one person in three. The federal
government commissioned public-opinion surveys three years ago that
concluded there were 3.3 million gun-owning Canadians. Now, however,
Ottawa is backing away from that number, saying that many people have
either sold their firearms or given them away because of the approaching
deadline.

Pressed to estimate the number of gun owners, David Austin, a spokesman
for the government's Canadian Firearms Centre, could not provide a
ballpark figure, saying 3.3 million is "probably high, but I can't tell
you really now how high."

Mr. Hinter of the firearms association said it is in the government's
interest to low-ball gun ownership figures so that the rate of
compliance with the law looks higher than it really is. "The government
is going to keep lowering the estimate of the number of gun owners until
they can declare success with Step 1 of the law, run around and claim
victory," he said.

Mr. Austin rejects that argument and says the vast majority of
Canadians are enrolling. "I think you're going to find that Canadians
generally are compliant; they know it's the law of the land," he said.

He also said a great many applications are likely in the mail and more
are to come as owners scramble to meet the Dec. 31 deadline. Because of
the deluge, staff working 24 hours a day are issuing temporary licences
that are valid for up to six months and will be replaced by proper
documentation in the new year.

Owners of gun stores say some clients are intending to flout the law.
"Lots of customers say, 'To hell with it'," said Wolf Gronau, who
operates a gun shop in Edmonton.

Mr. Gronau, who has a firearms acquisition certificate that is valid
for another three years, saving him from having to apply for a licence
under the new law until his current one expires, said the legislation
will result in the spread of the black market for firearms.

Along with buying guns illegally, Mr. Gronau said, people will purchase
their ammunition under the table because the law requires a licence to
buy bullets. He added that he has seen at least a 50-per-cent jump in
sales of ammunition this fall by his customers and the extra materials
may end up on the black market in the new year.

Although opinion polls have shown that most Canadians support gun
control, Bill C-68 has been intensely criticized by gun groups and by
provincial and territorial governments. Some argue that those
responsible for violent crime will not obtain licences and that the law
violates people's fundamental personal and property rights.

One gun group urged its members to thumb their noses at the law by
refusing to obtain licences. Other organizations recommended that people
overwhelm the phone lines, fax machines and mailbags at the government's
processing centres.

This fall, the Canadian Police Association, which represents the
country's rank-and-file officers and is deeply divided over the
legislation, postponed the question of supporting the law until next
year.
 
If the election would have gone the other way, I would have posted, "Coming soon to a country near you."

Now I will simply say, "Not on my watch."
 
Personally, I would not class what is going on in Canada as something that could ever be considered legal or a law.
It is simple tyranny, as old as the Bible, and should be called by its true name.
Now that the election is over, perhaps we can turn some of our attention towards helping our Canadian neighbors in their struggle to remain free men.
It cannot be in our interest to turn a blind eye to this injustice to our brothers in the north. Not after what we have been through with rulers with a similar agenda down here.
 
Those Canadians must think those Canadians are a bunch a stupid Canadians.

If history is any judge of future events, failed gun laws always result in more failed gun laws for which there must be more failed gun laws. For example, of the 20,000+ failed gun laws enacted in this country since 1934, how many have been repealed? If the answer is any number short of 20,000+ than I don't hold much hope for us, or our Freedom loving Canadian brethren. They will just exist, as we do, in a perpetual state of tolerant hostility toward the government.

The relentless attack on individual liberties by government won't end until it's made to end, and that event, although inevitable, will not come until people's heads are physically held to their living room floors by the Jack-boot. (And maybe not even then!)

How far Governments are willing to go to oppress is completely dependent on the defiance of those they seek to oppress. Must we always be reminded to look to the events of the past for this proof? History, unlike Algore, cannot lie. Adjust your rearview mirrors if you want to see the future.

Government can't be trusted: Period!

SM
 
I agree with Airborne, 100%. As far as Bush getting in, no matter, we should never forget, the Marxist Socialists, i.e., the left wing Democrats, NEVER, EVER disengage! They will come at us to take our Rights and finish destroying our Constitution, from all directions. The onslaught from the lying, devious, Marxist controlled media and their pap dispensers, will be vicious and incessant.

I have no time nor inclination to "help" the Canadians with their problems. I'm very busy with our own.

J.B.
 
Its too late for us......

Herodotus, thanks for the offer of help, but its just too late for us. Better spend your efforts protecting your own situation. Our only hope now is that the system will be completely overwhelmed as the process goes along. They are up to there necks in application forms, and appear to making no or little headway in the licencing portion of this 350 million dollar fiasco. I personally know folks that have been waiting for 6 months for the licence to be returned. My own license took over 4 months and I applied long before the rush.

Canadas registration fiasco will never be completed, as designed. They have no intention of trying to licence and register them all, thats would be an impossible task, the intention was to make it as hard, costly and inconvenient as possible to own and use a gun, and the scheme is working exactly as planned. Already the government is running ads in newspapers telling gunowners that if they are not licenced before Jan 1 01 they need to sell or transfer them to an already licenced individual (effectivly registering them) or to turn them in to the local RCMP. Many Canadian sheep will do just that, because its just too hard, and they have simply run out if time to comply with the law.

In 2 weeks there will be TWO MILLION new CRIMINALS in our once great country, for what??

Now get this, because of a new aero dynamic PELLET just released, the RCMP have re-tested pellet guns with this new pellet, and because the FPS can exceed 500 fps with this new wonder pellet, most PELLET GUNS have to now be registered, and pellet hand guns will now become restricted firearms. When will this madness stop......

I wonder when Im gonna have to register my re-loading equipment...


WCG

13 million votes, 4 hours, no machine counts, and look what we got. Wanna sell some Votamatics ?
 
This brings to mind that when WWII broke out, the britts were knee deep in gun control. With the eminate invasion by the Germans, the english appealed to the US to ship them guns, or any weapons, so they could defend themselves. The NRA came thru and shipped 7000 weapons for their self defense. Those who don't learn from history are apt to repeat it.
 
If you'll zip over here:
http://www.nfanow.com
The National Firearms Association site has ( somewhere in it ) a report showing this scheme ( AKA "risky" ) costing about 4X what was claimed- on economic grounds alone it's a scam!
 
Aye, there's the rub.

"As of Jan. 1, gun owners without licences cannot buy ammunition."

". . . people will purchase their ammunition under the table because the law requires a licence to buy bullets. "

"I wonder when Im gonna have to register my re-loading equipment..."


That's the next "logical step" since so many "lawbreakers" are loading their own ammo. They will be charged with selling ammo under the counter and therefore must be registered. You can bet you will have to show a license to buy components or equipment.

Just more items to smuggle across the American border. The pols up there are getting ready to create more criminal millionaires like we did during Prohibition.
 
If you'll surf on over here:
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a3a3bae395aff.htm
you'll see one of many reasons the "if only we get rid of all those evil guns" just can never work ( except to disarm the law-abiding who follow laws & regulations )-- there's always a black market... and people willing to cater to it.

After firefights, battles, and wars, some ordnance disappears, gets stolen, etc.

In his book "Improvised Modified Firearms" J. David Truby talks to an old (???) Norwegian resistance fighter who allowed that after the got rid of the NAZI's, they "kept some of that stuff ( kits of STEN guns and C-3 ) around-- just in case we need it again, Lad!"

I suspect that after the anti-defend yourself crowd has outlawed "sniper's rifles ( 50 cal first, then your deer rifle with a scope on it ) they target reloading & black powder weapons next...
 
It is my understanding that the Western Provinces of Canada are slowly but surely becoming disenchanted with the Eastern (socialist) ones. If that's true, it is clearly reflected in the famous USAToday election map, showing that the heartland of the U.S. voted for Bush, overwhelmingly, while the East and Left Coasts voted for Son of Slime. Perhaps our Canadian friends would like to do a deal: let's make the Heartland of the US and the Western Canadian provinces a new Country, dedicated to the proposition, (etc.), under God, with liberty & justice for all--and let the Coasts have their own form of Gov't. There's one out there for them--available cheap from the former Soviet Union. Slightly used, rusty, but still operable, in a manner of speaking. To add value to the deal, the maximum leader of the New Coastal Government will NOT have to spend lots of time & money shooting/starving Kulaks (heartland occupants,) because they will be citizens of another country! What a deal!! What a country!!
 
Along those lines, then why not have a restructuring of North America?

Ok, since both countries have this giant split in ideologies, why not rearrange them in a swap?

The coasts can go create the socialist states of America, and get the eastern block of Canada.

The heartland would get western canada, and would create The Liberty States of America.

???
 
The heartland would get western canada, and would create The Liberty States of America.

Sounds fine to me!
I've wondered/advocated for years splitting America into the "Parasite America" & the "Just Leave Me Alone America," but I know in practice it would never work because the former depends on using the gov't to dip into the latter
s back pocket...
 
"It is my understanding that the Western Provinces of Canada are slowly but surely becoming disenchanted with the Eastern (socialist) ones."


Its been happening for a long time. Gun control was not a central issue inthe past - special conditions to accomodate Quebec were.

The first time I was in western Canada was the early seventies. People were bitching about Quebec then. The last time I was in western Canada was in '92. Almost everybody I talked to in Saskatchewan (sp?), Alberta, BC, and the Yukon were highly irritated with Quebec. The overall sentiment was, "they can decide to be part of this country, or good riddance. Let them go form their own country, we don't need them." More than once I heard Yukonites suggest that the Yukon and Alaska should form their own country. I did hear several people voice concern over the eastern provinces which have voiced no desire, AFAIK, to leave Canada.

The native tribes in northern Quebec have indicated they would not go with Quebec if it leaves. The government of Quebec has indicated they will have no choice. The eastern provinces don't want to go either. They are brewing a civil war up there.

Its truly a shame because Canada is a wonderful country and I really, really like Canadians. They are some of the nicest people you'll ever meet and certainly more polite than Americans. I hope they can get this straightened out without destroying the country.
 
I am a Canadian living in the U.S.(married a U.S. citizen)and the situation in Canada both saddens me and encourages me. This type of gun control was tried in 1947 and the vast majority did not comply and the government dropped it. That encourages me and I hope they do it again. There is something to be said for peaceful civil disobedience. I have always felt one of Canada's biggest problem's was two official languages and Quebec's policy of having their cake and eating it too. (Full bi-lingualism for the country except in Quebec where French only is allowed.) It can be argued that language makes a nation. For example there are perhaps 60 million Turks living in Turkey, but about 250 million Turkish speaking peoles. Are these people Turks as well. Some think so, and the same can be said for other groups. My point is that language is a great unifying factor. Having experienced bi-lingualism for most of my life I can say personally I don't like it. It concerns me that the U.S. seems to be going down that road as well. I believe anyone coming to this country should learn English. If we start to get pockets of people speaking another language they will eventually want a land base just like in Quebec, and it will divide the country. I'd like to hear other people's view point on this. But before I sign off I'd like to make it clear that I am not denying anyone their cultural heritage, but don't try to make it the official culture, and don't demand services in your native language, at the very least it is impolite to come into someone's home and start dictating rules.
 
mass non-compliance, = civil disobedience.

The US is not that far behind Canada as far as gun laws go. The "pre-ban/post-ban" framework is already in place for both rifles and handguns. Now all that's required is another tragedy, like Columbine or in England, and the political wind sniffers will just tighten the noose, adding more guns or "characteristics" to the list. Lawful gun owners comply or become criminals.

Oatka, you make a good point, regarding the black market, that warrants elaboration.

Wasn't it the burgeoning black market that recently caused Canada to repeal recent cigarette taxes? The majority of citizens are non-violent by nature. Don't know what to do in the face of tyranny. For these folks, mass non-compliance, and use of the black market channels is the best way to derail unjust laws. Most of these "regulations" are expensive to start with, and get income from the "licensing" fees. Civil disobedience in the form of non-compliance cuts into the money stream, and at the same time multiplies the govt. cost dramatically on the enforcement side. If enough people participate, the law just collapses under its own weight (i.e., prohibition). They can't put everyone in jail!!!

There has been much discussion about CA SB23 and how to respond. Mass non-compliance=CIVIL disobedience.
 
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