Can you suggest good black-powder tutorials?

Pond James Pond

New member
If I am going to get into B-P shooting (possibly a Pedersoli Hawken .50cal, 1:48), I should know how to get the most out of it and how to car for it best.

Any and all easy to follow and, most importantly, sound in their advice.

So things about:

- how to load one properly.
- how to develop a load for a given projectile.
- how to choose propellant.
- types of projectile for my gun.
- how to choose said projectiles.
- how to match a projectile to my gun.
- how to clean my rifle.
- any other things I don't yet know about.

Know any good resources that I can peruse before buying?

Videos? Tutuorials?

Please post them!
 
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Yes I can ane the poster is in this group but he is also an editor at Black Powder Times......I cant remember his name right now but I am sure that other users will chime in with his name. His videos are on youtube.
 
Many sources

As mentioned, there are many publications and one that comes to mind, is the books by Sam Fadala. Amazon is a good source. YouTube has bunch of videos. Then there is a video called Muzzleloading Basics, #MC4005, by O'neill Williams and Chad Schearer. Reference BPI (Blackpowder Products Inc.) 5988 Peachtree Corners East, Norcross, Georgia 30071, (770) 449-4687. .... :)

Good Luck and;
Be Safe !!!
 
Mike Beliveau is the Black Powder editor for Guns of the Old West magazine. He has several you tube videos that are good or at least, I enjoy them. I would post a link, but I'm not sure if it's against the rules here. You can go to you tube, I think his handle is duellist1954. or Google "Guns of the Old West Magizine."
 
I'll be sure to check the Mike Beliveau YouTube vids, but I have just finished watching the Muzzleloading Basics series that Pahoo recommended and they have really doe a very good job of clearing the initial veil of ignorance that I was in.

It all makes a lot more sense and makes me feel like my choice of Percussion Cap Hawken .50 is a decent choice for my wants.
 
one thing is for sure, clean the bore between shots. I hate it, but do it anyway and my Hawken pulls of 100 yard groups like this consistently.
img_3922.jpg
 
Sam Fadala

My copy is almost in tatters it has been read so much.
As stated earlier, that is one of the books by Sam Fadala. I have about three different books by him, including the Lyman Loading manual. I often refer folks to his books. There are others out there just as good but harder to identify and locate. .... :)

Be Safe !!!
 
As stated earlier, that is one of the books by Sam Fadala. I have about three different books by him, including the Lyman Loading manual. I often refer folks to his books. There are others out there just as good but harder to identify and locate. ....

Hey Pahoo I realize SF has several BP books. I have a second newer book of his with a yellow cover and info on the inline rifles. But the print is so small its hard to read. The link I posted is for the same book I own and its the one that taught me how to load and shoot my sidelock frontstuffers.

The one I linked is kind of expensive but the only book that Pond should need. Worth every penny as far as I'm concerned.

I also have the Lyman book. Good load data but nothing that I hadn't learned from my SF book.
 
Just remembered I also have at least one and maybe two books from Toby Bridges.

My biggest problem was I got a starter kit with my first Cabelas Hawken. The patches were too thin and I kept burning them up. Sam taught me what to look for and once I had better patch material most of my problems were solved. But I still had things to learn. Now that I know what I know shooting BP guns is an awsome experience.

I fell in the BP hole for well over two years where I just wouldn't touch another gun. They were that much fun.

Plus I got interested in the history around them and then expanded my interest in history to the point I have read every american history book I could get from the local library. I am a big reader anyway and my interest in history is ongoing. Too bad some of my boring history teachers can't see me now. They just didn't know how to spark interest in their subject.
 
Sam's good and there are others.

Sam taught me what to look for and once I had better patch material most of my problems were solved.
Most of my BP knowledge comes from my Buckskinning days and hands-on. Use to rendezvous with old guys whose knowledge was amazing. Most are dead now. Have to admit that I too have learned much from Sam's writings. Some of Sam's info goes over my head and have to read it more than once. I not only read patches, but Sabots and primers. .... :)

Be Safe !!!
 
I shoot competition in the N-SSA. We do not use any kinds of patches around our bullets, so I will be talking about loading "naked" bullets in muzzle loaders.

- how to load one properly.

First, you want to verify that the firearm is unloaded. There are two ways to do this.

First, take the ramrod and let it drop the last few inches to hit the breech face. It should make a sharp metallic ping and the ramrod may bounce. If it makes a dull "clunk" sound, and if more of the ramrod is sticking out of the barrel than it normally does, the arm is probably loaded.

Secondly, before loading you should "snap caps". This means putting a percussion cap on the nipple and firing it off. This blows any residual oils out of the nipple and fire channel into the bore. If you do this while pointing the muzzle at the ground at some leaves or grass, the discharge of the cap should move the leaves/grass when it goes off. This will also tell you that the bore is free of obstructions.

Snapping caps is important when first shooting or after cleaning because otherwise you run a very real risk of fouling the powder and the arm won't shoot. Then you've got a hassle to clear.

- how to develop a load for a given projectile.

You should ask around on forums like this to find out what other people are shooting, and find out what the maximum load for your arm is. Then you can bracket this on the low and high side to find your optimal load.

For example, last week I did load workups for the RCBS 500m, Moose Wilkinson, and RCBS Hodgdon bullet in my new Pedersoli P53. You can read about it and see the target results here:

http://www.n-ssa.org/vbforum/showth...th-RCBS-500M-Moose-Wilkinson-and-RCBS-Hodgdon

I started at around 35 grains of 3F powder, which I knew would be on the low side, and worked up to around 60 grains, which I knew would be on the high side. I make up 10 shots for each charge, and increase the charge by 5 grains for each set of 10. You can get away with 5 shots, but I like 10 for more data.

I shoot these off of a bench rest, cleaning the barrel in between each set of 10 shots. Some people choose to clean in between each shot. It depends on the kind of shooting you do. In N-SSA shooting, we always shoot at least 5 shots, and perhaps as many as 15 in any course of fire without cleaning.

You will find that the amount of powder makes a very large difference in group tightness for any given bullet and firearm.

- how to choose propellant.

In N-SSA competition, only real black powder is allowed. There are a few brands to choose from: Sheutzen, Goex, Swiss, KIK, and perhaps some others. I am familiar with Sheutzen and Goex. I will not use Sheutzen again as I find it a very dirty powder compared to Goex. Swiss is said to be the Cadillac but it is considerably more expensive. I've never gotten up the nerve to order it in bulk. Goex is my usual powder.

The general rule of thumb is 2F for long arms and 3F for pistols. I, however, like many shooters, use 3F in long arms. Being of finer granulation, it burns faster and generally gives a bigger "kick" for the same amount of powder as 2F. Since 2F and 3F powder costs the same, you can use less 3F and get the same performance and save money.

- types of projectile for my gun.

I can't tell you anything about Hawkens - you'll have to see what other people are shooting in it. I shoot expanding balls (Minie balls) in my .58 caliber rifled guns with 1:48 twist and 1:72 twist.

- how to choose said projectiles.

I find it best to find out what other people are shooting and try that first. For optimal accuracy with expanding ball cartridges, you will want a sizer that will size the bullet to .001"-.002" under bore size. I use a Lyman Lubrisizer that can size and lubricate in one go.

You might try a variety of bullets, working up loads for each, until you find what gives you the best groups.

- how to match a projectile to my gun.

You work up a load that gives you the tightest group.

- how to clean my rifle.

Hot soapy water. Many people do not bother to unship the barrel from the arm during cleaning. If you are careful and don't get water on the wood, and if you have waterproofed the barrel channel, you can do that. I usually unship the barrel as it's easier to just tote the barrel over to my utility sink for cleaning.

I use a toothbrush with dish soap to scrub deposits away from the nipple area. I remove the nipple and clean it separately, and use Q-tips to clean out the threaded hole for the nipple. I use my cleaning rod/jag with patches to clean the barrel until it comes clean, then I brush with a brass brush, and then clean with patches again. I then use a bore scraper to clean the breech face and clean with a patch one more time to flush everything out.

With the breech end submerged in the hot soapy water of my utility sink (You can use a 5-gallon bucket, too) when you work the cleaning jag up and down with a patch it acts like a pump and sucks water in and out of the threaded hole for the nipple, cleaning it.

I also use pipe cleaners to clean the fire channel from the nipple hole into the bore.

I then use patches with Ballistol to clean the rest of the gun, including the wood. Every other cleaning or so I will remove the lock to fully clean and lubricate it also.

Steve
 
@Maillemaker

Thanks for the great overview of BP shooting.

It sounds very involved, but a lot of fun! Let's see what might come up in the next few months!! I need to do some research first though, and some complementary saving!
 
Do you plan to hunt with the gun or is it just a toy?

Do you want to shoot patched balls, or conical bullets. or maybe both?
 
Do you plan to hunt with the gun or is it just a toy?

I have looked at the translated law and it is a bit ambiguous about whether or not ML are allowed for hunting. On the one hand, (based on the officially translated version) hunting big game required 6.5mm minimum calibre so a ML would suit. On the other hand, there is a reference to cartridges in the Hunting Act which would exclude ML hunting. Not clear. In any case, I would still like to try ML purely for the fun. It also seems like it could be cheaper than regular shooting, given that you send fewer shots down range over the course of an hour at the range.

There is the added benefit that I can add another form o shooting to my repertoire without having to sacrifice anything else. So in this sense it would be the fun aspect.

Unlike the other guns I have the pre-1870 is exempt from the limitations of the Weapons Act, so it does not impede on my present storage limit that I have reached and due to which I have previously had to sell a gun in order to buy another.

Do you want to shoot patched balls, or conical bullets. or maybe both?

Both would be ideal, but I am quite taken with the idea of the Minie Conical bullets. If I got into casting, they would be easy to produce, although both ball and conicals are quite a bit cheaper than centrefire bullets over here. So again, not only would a nominal 1000 projectiles be cheaper to buy, they would also last a lot longer.
 
Both would be ideal, but I am quite taken with the idea of the Minie Conical bullets
Conical generally do better in barrels with faster twist rates

A 1-48 is a "compromise" twist that is supposed to work with balls and bullets.

Most of the newer ML's designed for conicals and sabots will have a 1-28 or faster.

I'm not sure what options you'll have with Pedersoli, but it's just something else to consider before buying

It WILL be much cheaper to shoot since you can vary the load to suit your purposes, and real BP is pretty cheap, although the substitutes burn much cleaner

I like Hodgdon 777 or Pyrodex, but use mine mainly for hunting, using sabots and 44 cal pistol bullets in a Knight "Black Knight" rifle

I had to buy my wife a Knight Disc Elite so I could get mine back after I made the mistake of letting her kill a deer with mine
 
If your at the range...the first snap cap should not be pointed at the nearby ground to see if the grass or leaves move --- it should be pointed at the backstop berm --- in case you have a loaded round in the pistol or rifle.

After cleaning, but before you oil the rifle down...grab some towels and heavy gloves and pour a small pot of boiling water down the muzzle {so it opens up the metal pores in the bore,} use two dry patches --- let the barrel cool --- then oil it down.

I like to lubricate my round ball patches with Simple Green Solution --- and between each shot --- swab out with a patch with the same Simple Green.

Make sure you buy a blackpowder bristle brush that works in a back & forth motion when used in a front stuffer.

If the black powder gun does not fire...keep the muzzle pointed at the backstop for at least one minute.

During a ceasefire on the firing line...all blackpowder muzzles must be pointed vertical.

You'll find that 3F gives a sharper kick then 2F. Say if you use a 90 grain 2F charge...drop down 10 grains if using 3F. Shooting 3F in my 50 cal. Hawken gives me a headache.

For a round that won't fire:
Buy a CO2 blowout kit, with the proper size nipple kit, or screw-out the nipple and pour a small amount of 3F down the cap-fire pathway --- screw the nipple back on --- put a cap own and fire the unwanted round out of the muzzle. Or have a screw jag for your cleaning rod, so you can screw & pull-out the unwanted bullet. Keep body parts away from the muzzle when loading.

Warning: Don't try the CO2 blowout method inside your home. No smoking within 25 feet of a muzzleloader on the firing line, and never pour a 1 pound can of blackpowder into a smaller canister on the firing line --- while in the presence of other shooters. Always use a small canister of blackpowder --- when loading a pre-charge measure tube --- instead of a 1 pound can.

Check out Dixie Gun Works and Graf & Sons.
 
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