Can you OVER-clean a gun?

F

fallen4shell

Inactive
I just got my S&W 617 and am getting ready for a trip to the range. It's brand spankin' new and I want to take the absolute best care of it so it will last me a long time. This is only the 2nd revolver I have owned (with that old Iver Johnson .22 being the first) and I know that I might tend to be a little compulsive when it comes to cleaning and oiling. I like to brush and clean out all the bores and oil everything up real nice after every trip to the range, yet I have read in several posts to clean one "once or twice a year" is sufficient. It can't possible HURT to clean and oil the gun more often then not can it?
 
watch how? How much oil is TOO much and what happens (as in what is the harm or potential danger) when you put too much oil on or in it?
 
I believe that if you over scrub the barrel it will effect long term accuracy. That said, I don't feel you can overscrub if you use brass or plastic cleaning brushes.

When you oil there should be a thin film of oil on the mechanical parts of the gun. It should not be dripping wet. The cylinders and the barrel should be wipped dry prior of firing. This allows the cartriges to properly expand in the cylinder and the projectile to travel down the barrel without obstruction.

At the operating pressures of a .22 I don't think it is a safety issue but I believe with some higher pressure rounds it may be. YMMV
 
according to most manuals (all the ones i've ever seen) a light film is all that's needed, i.e. put oil on rag wipe down gun, wipe off with a clean rag. you're not going to get all the oil off without a cleaner.

over oiling won't hurt in and of itself. the problem is too much oil attracts dirt and grime, and when grit gets into moving parts, that's when damage occurs.
 
tubular, man

Suggest cleaning bore when accuracy becomes affected.


If cleaning wears guns out mine will last forever.
 
The crown is the end of your bore. Cleaning it is not bad in and of itself, improper cleaning can damage it and affect accuracy though. Bumping the end of the rifling at the crown with a cleaning rod can slightly change the rifling, subsequently ruining accuracy
 
PLEASE forgive my truly embarrassing stupitidy when it comes to gun lingo...but what is the "rifling"?
Click to expand...

RIFLING is the spiraling twist you see when you look thru the barrel (traditionally called LANDS & GROOVES). This causes the bullet to spin allowing for a straighter shot and it keeps the bullet from tumbling towards the target.
 
Ok, YES, you CAN overclean a firearm. Get yourself a stainless steel brush or a number of phospher-bronze brushes, hook them up to an automated plunger and let it run for a couple days...

The real question is: how much effort is really required to "overclean" a firearm to the point of damaging a weapon? The answer is, A LOT. I recall reading stories of WWII weapons being cleaned and used so much that the rifling was worn away to the point of accuracy suffering. Don't ask me where I read that or heard about it, but I do buy the plausibility of it happening.

So, to put it one last way: When I get back from a 200 round shooting session, I grab an oil rag and wipe off the exterior, grab my Bore-Snake and run it through three times with a bit of Hoppe's or the like on it, and then put a couple of drops of strategically placed oil on the gun (ie: slide on my Gold Cup, cylinder latch on the Revo...). Bag the gun and call it a day.

I figure it will take, what, maybe 100 years of cleaning that way to do any real damage to firearm...by that time, I will either have shot the gun into looseness and destruction or will be dead and not care anymore.
 
Granted, I am pretty new to firearms, but it seems to me that BLASTING a lead or copper bullet through the barrel at 1000+ fps would wear away the rifling MUCH MUCH MUCH more rapidly then I ever possibly could by pushing a copper brush through it at approximately 3 fps or less. Is there something else that I just AM NOT SEEING that gives evidence to the contrary? From my perspective, it seems that it would take HUNDREDS of cleanings for the small amount of heat that is generated by the friction from that copper brush and soft cloth to equal an amount of wear to the rifling comparable to even ONE bullet being shot through it. ANd these guns are made to withstand THOUSANDS upon THOUSANDS of rounds of ammunition! If one does NOT clean the barrel thoroughly, however, grit and grime left in the bore would increase the friction levels of each bullet EXPONENTIALLY as it travels through the rifling, thus accelerating wear at the same exponential rate.

So far I am not convinced that it is possible to clean and oil a gun TOO MUCH or TOO OFTEN if it is done correctly (which would exclude such circumstanses as publius described in which someone rams the cleaning rod into the rifling at the crown). Please DO keep the opposing arguments coming, though, I would DEFINITELY like to know if I am wrong here or if there is something that I am missing.
 
RIFLING is the spiraling twist you see when you look thru the barrel
Click to expand...
Just make sure the weapon is unloaded first. On a revolver, swing the cylinder out, on an auto, magazine out, slide open, just to be safe.
 
The bullet wears the bore evenly. Cleaning wear isn't even, and the wear at the muzzle is particularly injurious to accuracy.

You can clean as much as you want as long as you're very careful to prevent the cleaning rod from touching the muzzle. Also, it's probably wise to minimize the use of a metal brush in a rimfire.

BTW, if you're dead sure that you already know the answer, asking for advice is just a waste of your time and the time of those you ask. ;)
 
JohnKSa~
I'm not DEAD sure of anything. The reason I started the thread is because I had read a few posts where people were recommending only cleaning your gun lightly and periodically as opposed to very thoroughly and very often. At that time I was assuming that there were some specific reasons unbeknown to me that should prevent a person from thoroughly cleaning a gun as often as they like....I was hoping that some such GOOD reasons would surface that would make me think "AHHH....yes, I see now. That makes COMPLETE sense." SO far no reasons of that nature have surfaced and so I am beginning to believe that it is something of an urban legend of sorts that has survived because people would rather hear that they should only clean their gun every now and then as opposed to EVERY time they shoot it -- this is all just a theory of course, but I have yet to hear any evidence to support otherwise.

As I have said before I do not claim to be knowledgeable about guns. I am, however, not at all illiterate in the properties and wear patterns of steel and other metals (I'm an auto mechanic...what do you think engines are made of?), therfore you are going to have a very difficult time convincing me that two cold (and usually wet to some degree) peices of metal - one being the cleaning rod and the other the bore - rubbing together at a VERY slow velocity is going to wear out either said peice of metal before another very HOT piece of metal - that being the bullet - rubbing against another peice of metal - the bore - at an EXTREMELY high velocity is going to.

Though I admit that wear from cleaning, however minimal, is going to be slightly less evenly distributed than that of a bullet I think that it would take more cleaning than a person could possibly do in his/her lifetime or the lifetime of the gun to wear the bore out to the point that it affected the accuracy. And as I have stated before it seems obvious to me that dirt in the barrel from LACK of cleaning combined with the heat, friction, and high velocity of the metal bullet is going to be a FAR FAR greater wear factor than a little bump against the muzzle with a steel cleaning rod. I am frankly very SURPRISED that anyone would see it otherwise and am still looking for an adequate reason as to WHY someone would subscribe to such a belief.

I really don't mean to be so dang contrary...but this is the LIFE of my precious new $500 baby we are holding in the balance and I won't just take you guy's "word" for it against all common sense. I NEED REASONS PEOPLE! Give me something that I can hear and understand why what you are saying that goes against my common sense is, in fact, right. If I am wrong then I NEED you guys to convince me so that I do not ruin my poor revolver before it even reaches it's prime.

Is there anyone out there that agrees with me, by the way???? A little affirmation would be nice too if anyone actually buys into my logic. Or perhaps there is someone out there who is on the fence a little bit and you find yourself thinking "HEY...ya know that DOES make more sense." I dunno....I'm just groping for feedback here.
 
I clean my centerfires every time I shoot them.

I clean my rimfires when I can detect a decrease in accuracy. I've done it both ways (clean every outing/clean when accuracy falls off) and the only difference I can tell is in how much time I spend cleaning.

The 17 calibers tend to be a bit more sensitive to fouling and accuracy will probably fall off a bit sooner, but cleaning every session will probably still be more than necessary.

You can clean as often as you like if you do not use a metal brush and if you are absolutely certain you can keep the cleaning rod from contacting the crown or the rifling near the muzzle.

But if you damage or wear the crown, or the rifling near the muzzle, the accuracy of the firearm will be noticeably affected. It doesn't take much to make a difference, and in a 17 caliber bore, the rifling and the crown are quite small and delicate.

When the bullet exits the bore, it is being pushed by very high-pressure gases. Those gases need to be able to escape around the base of the bullet. If they don't escape evenly and smoothly, the bullet will be pushed around and accuracy will be affected.

The other thing you need to understand is that "fouling" in modern rimfire cartridges is primarily graphite and bullet lubricant, neither of which is abrasive or damaging in any way to the firearm.

I think you could probably find way more than you want to read on the topic if you searched this forum or other forums like this one, or even doing internet searches.
 
You asked the question. People gave you answers that works for them. A lot of us have quite bit more than $500 invested in firearms and don't harm them in cleaning because certain basic rules are followed. If these rules and methods go against your logic then maybe you should consult S&W on how to care for your M617.
 
The titanium guns have a coating on them. It is important to clean it properly so as not to damage that coating. Anodizing on aluminum is similar.
 
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