Can you consider a car to be a form of a weapon?

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SARuger

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So I'm walking the pup the other night and a car is coming down the street towards me. I wiggle my LED flashlight at them to let them know I'm there. I have had issues before of cars "breezing" me and the dog and its left me a little skiddish. This car veers towards me and proceeds to take a path to hit me! I jump to the ditch and the car passes and I clearly hear the occupants laughing. My road is not lighted, I didn't get the tag and couldn't tell the make/model/color. I had my pocket carry on me and if they had come back to do harm I was ready but they were cowards or they got wise and moved on.

My question is; If they had come back to take another pass at me could I defend myself? I worry because I'm in a house filled neighborhood and a stray bullet could do more harm than good and a moving target is difficult at night with a handgun.

I wonder what the legalities are here? I called the county police and they were of no help. Could care less actually. If I were in a more rural area like where I grew up, I know what I would have done........

I want advice not criticism.
 
That's a tough one to call. I understand that most states don't have a duty to retreat, but I think most folks with any sense could figure an easy out if you were actually fearful for your life. They are in a car, I can only assume their are trees, houses and other cars nearby, not to mention just a quick jog back to the house. If you were staying in the same general area, pretty much waiting for the car to return, you couldn't have been fearing much.
 
Ready to do what?

To protect myself if they had come back hoping I was wounded? I never drew my firearm.

I was a half mile from my house.
 
SARuger said:
So I'm walking the pup the other night and a car is coming down the street towards me. I wiggle my LED flashlight at them to let them know I'm there. I have had issues before of cars "breezing" me and the dog and its left me a little skiddish. This car veers towards me and proceeds to take a path to hit me! I jump to the ditch and the car passes and I clearly hear the occupants laughing. My road is not lighted, I didn't get the tag and couldn't tell the make/model/color. I had my pocket carry on me and if they had come back to do harm I was ready but they were cowards or they got wise and moved on.

My question is; If they had come back to take another pass at me could I defend myself? I worry because I'm in a house filled neighborhood and a stray bullet could do more harm than good and a moving target is difficult at night with a handgun.

I wonder what the legalities are here? I called the county police and they were of no help. Could care less actually. If I were in a more rural area like where I grew up, I know what I would have done........

I want advice not criticism.
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Yea a car is most certainly a weapon. Its not the primary intended use by the manufacturer, but neither are pens, your hands etc...it's when someone decides to use it to cause harm, then it is.

I'm no expert or lawyer, but I'd say if you were making a legitimate effort in getting away, like changing your path of travel and increasing speed and they were still trying to run you down, then you might be justified. Key emphasis on "might". Because again I'm not a lawyer or familiar with your local laws
 
I see no difference between a man with a gun or a driver trying to run you down.
"...if there is sufficient evidence to prove that it was reasonable to believe that
the offending party posed an imminent threat to the life or well-being of another,
in self-defense."

Seems fairly clearcut.
(Of course the forensics/tiretracks would be most useful at that point)
 
You can stay on the other side of that ditch you referred to, go up a walk to a neighbor's door, basically get out of the roadway for a few minutes until they get bored with their game and leave, the driver of the car won't follow you. Then a 911 call with a license number is called for.

After all that, and they're still trying to run you down, a shot in the radiator might be acceptable, but you can still cross the ditch or go up to a house. When they get out of their car is when display of the pistol is appropriate.
 
You can stay on the other side of that ditch you referred to, go up a walk to a neighbor's door, basically get out of the roadway for a few minutes until they get bored with their game and leave, the driver of the car won't follow you. Then a 911 call with a license number is called for.

After all that, and they're still trying to run you down, a shot in the radiator would be appropriate.
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If somebody was actively trying to run me down the radiator would not be where I would be placing my shots.
 
The question is not really just whether the actions of a driver of a vehicle may provide a basis for a reasonable belief that there is an imminent threat of death or serious bodily harm.

The question is what the should reasonably do out of immediate necessity to defend himself or herself.

It is possible to conjure up a circumstance in which the attempted use of deadly force against driver (which would neither stop nor slow the car nor cause it to change direction) would be the only way for the defender to prevent immediate death or serious bodily harm....I suppose.

Barring that---yes, it is "clear cut".
 
I've known of several occasions when ne'er-do-wells have tried to run over police offices in my town. Said ne'er-do-well is routinely charged with Aggravated Assault, which requires a weapon.

So my answer is "yes, a car can be a weapon."
 
The outcome and potential charges are highly dependent on jurisdiction, and likely prosecution dependent upon the DA.

In Texas, you're probably (IMHO) ok with protecting yourself with a gun against a vehicle, except in Austin. Possibly also San Antonio and Dallas.
Having a gun (at all) in Austin is a 'virtual crime' according to at least 1 of the Asst. Dist. Attorneys.

In Lubbock, you may get a pat on the back ( :) )
 
One thing I have NOT seen others mention....is the dreaded....but ever ongoing.....cellphone/texting-distracted driving......from what I read in the op posting...the laughing could have been from a received text/call.....I see so many people doing what I now call.."preying to the cell phone god".....a moving vehicle...with the driver...head down as in prayer....face planted in a phone.......the day using a cell phone in a moving vehicle is illegal....can not come soon enough...
 
Thanks all for the replies.

The driver veered his vehicle at me after I let my presence be known with my flashlight. That tells me there was ill intent towards me. It was probably just kids acting stupid but in this day and time you never know. As far as me knocking on a door for help, yes I could have done that. But this was 11pm, in a mostly elderly neighborhood. Hopefully I will never face this situation again
 
If your in fear for your life, does the weapon (or even lack of one, with allowable differences) really matter?
 
Forget the legalities. How do you expect to stop a car with a pocket gun? Kill the driver: car is still coming at you. Shoot the tire: 1) you have to hit it, 2) you have to puncture it, and 3) the car is still coming at you. Shoot the engine: you're kidding, right?

Best bet is to either run in the direction the car is coming from, but at an angle so that the driver can't turn the car in your direction and/or get behind a largish tree or similar heavy object that won't be pushed by the car.

So simple answer is to get out of the way. Oh, and do you really think you can draw the gun in time while being stressed? And control your dog? By all means have your gun ready afterwards in case the driver exits the car.
 
How I look at it.(I have NO legal credentials.I'm not a lawyer.This is not advice).
If the question is "Would I get away with it?"

Well,generally I would just operate under the assumption that if you use your weapon on someone that you Will be arrested and charged,and that you Will be in a legal fight to stay out of prison.
If the situation is bad enough to say "I can't worry about that right now,I'm about to be dead"
Then facing a legal battle is better than being dead.

And its probably legit self defense.

For myself,I would also assume that any questions I posted on the internet about "Would I be justified in shooting someone under these circumstances?" will be found and brought to court by the DA.

The situation as you described?I wasn't there.Sounds bad.Sounds like the driver needed to be arrested for something.Sounds like you have legit reason to be PO'd.
But ,without shooting,you are alive and so is your dog.That apparently means you cannot claim "I had no other choice"
And,you are not sitting in a cell after giving your house to some lawyer who may not be able to keep you out of jail.Which could always happen.

Could be you made the best of a bad situation.

Where is the tipping point between "I am in mortal fear for my life" and "Can I get away with shooting this SOB"

In an instant,a situation that may well have been about fearing for your life changes from stopping an immediate threat (legit SD) to being PO'd and "administering vigilante justice" which is not legit.

It all changes in microseconds.
 
There was a case in Cincinnati a few years ago where a man shot and killed a man stealing his car when the thief veered toward the owner and attempted to hit him.

The County Prosecutor, Joe Deters, said the shooting was justified and declined to prosecute.
 
I've had pretty much the same thing happen to me twice in my life, both times in my late teens. Was I in fear for my life? Yes, or I wouldn't have moved. Both times I resolved the situation by taking two quick steps.

I am 99.9% sure that the driver was not trying to kill me, and most likely that applies to your situation as well. In both cases the driver did swerve intentionally to put me in harm's way, which has got to be some kind of crime, but difficult to prove (cameras in some areas may change that). I'm sure it was just some morally deficient idiot, being egged on by his equally stupid friends.

As far as using a gun to defend yourself in such a situation, it's probably not a good idea either legally or tactically. Best solution is to move to where you are safe from the car. Usually there are ways to do that. I think it would only be justified if you were certain the driver meant to harm you, like if he's doing it repeatedly, and you had no safe way to retreat, like if you were in the middle of a completely open parking lot or something.

Even then, your carry gun is probably not the gun you'd want to disable the driver or the car.

As for the argument that killing the driver doesn't stop the car, no, but at least the car wouldn't be able to compensate for your dodge.
 
don't forget the do-gooder that shot the carjacker with a large woman on the hood. can't say it can't be done. But getting off shots with car headed towards you is a little different and not likely to save you even if you do put the bullets where needed, how's it going to stop then. i think your situation would have been easily escaped after the first pass, and there is no way to know the driver's intent unless he comes back around a second time and then your should be able to have had a barricade of some kind between you and the car. outside of him doing an instant 180 and coming right back for you, i think you would have a tough time making your case.
 
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