Can someone help me with knife steels?

B

briandg

New member
Hopefully, mAybe not. Here's the story.

I found this ridiculous thing for $30 or so, and bought it as a wall hanger.

https://taylorbrandsllc.com/collections/uncle-henry/products/uncle-henry-bowie-full-tang-fixed-blade

I have some incredible walnut that I've cut to replace the plastic. I want small pins, not the faux rivets. To do this I have to drill eight holes in the steel, about 1/8. I've used standard cobalt bits on carbon steels before; it didn't even dimple this blade.

Apparently it's too much to expect that companies provide composition and hardness information. The steel is 7Cr17MoV, similar to 440-A or AUS 6. Chrome content is about seven. Max hardness may be about 55.

To the question. I'm not the brightest guy in the room and lately processing a lot of information is hard.

Cobalt didn't work, TiN won't. I'm not sure if TC will. If I have to, I can use my propane torch to anneal it. Wrap th thing in wet cloth, one spot at a time, cool slowly, but will that work? I can keep the blade cool.
 
Last edited:
Maybe

I think I would try to use a carbide end mill and see what that does. Use a mill or a drill press.
You could try to anneal the handle by using 2 small rod or pieces of flat bar on top of a bucket full of water to let the blade down in the water. Set the knife on the hilt between the two pieces of steel and toast away. I doubt if a propane torch will get it hot enough to anneal it.
Maybe google up your steel and see how to anneal it. You can look up a steel color vs temperature chart, the steel will change color with the temp, so you could tell what temp you had to get to to anneal it like you want.
 
I've been looking at a carbide mill bit, as you suggest. I should be able to reach a medium red glow with a torch, best I can tell, that may soften the steel

I've never encountered this problem before. I've put together a number of knives on premade blades but in general they didn't need drilling.

There's a trick that I heard, essentially use an electric welder to spot heat the thing. It's something that seems a little nuts. It was suggested for spot annealing on hardened military auctions.
 
And just by the way, this thing is enormous. it touched my knee cap when I tried it on. A nice leather sheath is about a four hour project.
 
Thanks, Bill.

I don't make knives but I have put together maybe a dozen premade blades with wood and metal furniture, and I make leather. With nothing but a drill press and hand tools the time involved in anything too involved is significant.

I have one room that is decorated in a southwest set of colors. I'm thinking about hanging a rack, putting my nickel plated coach gun and my 92 on it, and this beast of a knife.

My wife sometimes names things , like pets. She has named it Brutus.
 
briandg, I've encountered this problem before. The easiest way for you to heat it up to a critical temp is going to be with a cutting torch. When I say cutting torch I mean an oxy/acetylene setup. Don't heat it like your going to cut it by adding more air but once you get the flame right go ahead and get that sucker hot. Only spot heat it though. Heat each hole location individually and while its hot (hot red) use a carbide bit to drill through it before it cools. This should soften the metal enough to get through... if you let it completely cool it is going to air harden and that is what you have been facing so far.

Be sure to keep your blade cool so as to not interfere with the current heat treat though.

Keep us posted.
 
The oxy torch is a bit out of reach. If I knew someone with access to an edm or waterjet system, it'd be a piece of cake. My nephew worked at a company that used edm machines. There's a waterjet dealer here who does custom and piece work. Nephew is currently working in another machinist job, but setting up a drill operation is never going to fly.

Now I remember why I hated using chrome steels. The best knife I have is a razor thin drop point, a loveless type shape, and a plain carbon steel. My God, that takes an edge, holds it, but it's ugly metal. I can slice free hanging toilet paper after a minute or two on my white Arkansas stone, and my strop. I use a piece of leather that I have crammed full of red oxide past that I mounted on flat oak. I don't like stainless knives.
 
you might be able to get it up to temp by swapping your propane bottle for a MAP GAS bottle. MAP has a higher combustion temp. and is closer to the OXY torch.
 
I have HS, TN, Cobalt and diamond drills and I can tell you what I would do:
Take the stripped blade to a local machine shop with your hole placements marked and let them know how big to drill the holes.

I am, from the description, assuming this is a 440C steel. For proper annealing you will need to raise the temperature to around 1650F degrees followed by oven cooling at around 1350F down to 1100F followed by air cooling. This will have to be done to the entire blade and after the holes are made the blade will have to be hardened and heat treated to regain its properties.
Your optional choices are laser cut holes, water jet cut holes or a slot / slots ground in the tang and tongues installed in the slots with rivets on them.

This is not really something that can be undertaken by a novice with a happy ending.
 
It's an equivalent to 440 A, supposedly. I'm just going to get carbide bits, clamp it in place, and try cutting them that way. I'm not willing to pay a small fortune at a machine shop for this ridiculous thing. If all fails, I can jus use the stupi looking false rivets in tho original holes.

If I use the stupid rivets, how can I inset a name plate with "Brutus" into the wood?
 
An option that I just considered would be to grind some small bolts down to make studs, silver solder into place, then use epoxy to embed them into the wood. I almost always "spot weld" the scales anyway. With unmarked scales I can put dummy pins anywhere I want to. Maybe I'm just over thinking this, insisting that I bore eight holes in the steel just to put in some pins. I could almost certainly just epoxy the things in place, and they will not only be held in place, but if they are ruined, I could still take them off for replacement.

Studs locked into the original holes sounds like it will work.
 
The description said it was high carbon stainless,
440A is less than .75% carbon
440B is between .75 and .95% carbon
440C is between .95 and 1.2% carbon
in addition to the high carbon content 440C is for knives and chisels with high edge holding properties. 440C is also the most available form of 440 steel.

I will admit that I am only going by the description and your efforts to cut it. Any of the 440 steels can be difficult to machine after it is hardened.

fasten the nameplate to the scale before you attach the scales to the knife. You could use rivets, screws or adhesive to attach it.
 
It's not that hard to do. You can't anneal air-hardening steels with a torch, guys-only carbon steels.
All that needs to be done is for the OP to get a couple of carbide bits of the proper diameter, and drill the blade. I do it frequently.
 
As I said before, this thing is essentially a goofy thing to hang on a wall. Yes, I see, that plate should go on as you said. If the thing had brass bolsters, I'd have probably use some round escutcheon pins. I'm planning to use some nickel rod stock.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top