Can someone explain this to me?

M

Model12Win

Moderator
Hello all! It appears there are a number or Remington 870 Police shotguns on Gun Broker that come with wood stocks and 18" barrels...

With 4 round magazine tubes!!!

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Can someone please explain to me WHY??? Why in the world would you buy this style of shotgun with a magazine tube so short? There is EASILY enough room under the barrel to accommodate a mag tube that would hold AT LEAST two more shells, probably three more.

I know it's "different strokes for different folks" but give me a break. Who would want to purposefully limit themselves when the gun already has so few rounds available? That's only five shots of 12 gauge. A Mossberg 590 with just 2" more barrel has a capacity of NINE SHELLS with it's full length magazine tube.

So, can someone explain to me why Remington offers this gun in this configuration? I'll bet someone out there will say it "swings better" or "points more naturally" or something like that. Is that really worth it to you vs having much more ammunition on board? Again, this is a police shotgun, not a bird shooter or hunting gun.

What do you all feel about this??
 
That is the standard configuration for the 870. Obviously, you haven't handled these guns in stock configuration compared to the 6-8-10 shot models. They simply handle better. They are quicker on target.
And damned few situations require 8 shots. The gun can be reloaded quickly with proper training anyway.
I bought a 870 with all the stuff- sidesaddle, 8 shot tube. I took all that crap off as soon as I got it home. In my opinion, it's mall ninja stuff.
Besides- you can buy one of these and add all that cra... um, stuff later. Lasers, flashlights, foregrips, slings with 100 rounds, bayonets, bipods, pistol grips, Ar stocks, geez........
Just so you can "clear your living room."
 
Hey, Model 12,

I don't know when these originally left the factory. I believe these shotguns were sold at the lowest price point possible, Every piece and every part came off the shelf as is. No special modifications or changes were done.

There is also the "product liability" insurance to take into consideration. Everytime a product is modified or upgraded there is a increase in the cost of it's insurance
 
Pretty easy to add a mag tube extension.

If I want High Capacity - I'd grab a...
AR15
AK
M1A
Mini-14
etc etc

If the price is right, those old 870 Wingmaster Cop Shotguns are usually a good deal for a home defense gun.

I have one that I added a side saddle and magazine extension tube to. Works just fine.
 
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Because that configuration was all that was needed to put the Model 12 out of business?
Because plenty of us still think 5 rounds is gracious plenty, and in fact actually have 3 available because it is used for hunting where 3 rounds is the limit anyway?
Because when you increase the length of the mag tube on an 870, the barrels will no longer interchange without doing something to compensate?
Because screw on add on capacity is widely available?
Remington does make a model NOW with increased capacity due to the increased demand for such guns, but buyers have already run into the issue swapping barrels. Criticizing the design of the best selling pump shotgun in the history of the world because you don't like one feature is somewhat short sighted. You won't like the design of the second most popular, the Mossberg 500, either.
 
Seems to me Rem just put an 18" barrel on their 870 Express turkey gun.

If you look at the Rem LE website they offer an optional 2/3 shot mag extension.
 
If you can't stop the fight with 5 rounds from a shotgun, you shoulda grabbed your AR........ All that weight upfront really makes the handling sluggish and crappy. If your major concern in a gun for HD is capacity, then an AR with a 30 round mag or a Glock with the 33 round G18 mag will be your best choice.
 
"...all that was needed to put the Model 12 out of business?..." Winchester did that themselves in 1964.
That pictured shotgun's barrel is more than 18". Not that it matters. Most of 'em are used for hunting not riot control.
 
norm

The 4+1 Remington 870 is likely the most common version LE shotgun on duty.
They were sold that way for decades, when the 6 shot revolver ruled, and 5 rds of 12 ga was seen as plenty. I'd wager there are more 870's set up just like that, in racks, trunks, and on duty, still, than any other.

I think the shotgun mag tube extension has only gotten popular in the last decade or so. Heck, my agency's policy forbid an extended mag for a long time.
 
As you stated, most of these on GunBroker are former law enforcement. The prison guards found them lighter in weight while guarding prisoners picking up trash along the roadways and slinging grass. They were also lighter for carrying all day as a riot gun.

I have a Mossberg Model 500ATP with a 20" barrel and 8 round magazine. It came from one of the popular GunBroker Law Enforcement Distributors. This wood furniture shotgun was a former Alabama State Patrol firearm. It is a great shotgun for home defense.

As others have stated, it does effect handling with so much weight forward on relatively short barrels like 18 1/2 and 20 inchers.
 
I don't know if Remington still makes them but they use to make a 21 inch version of the 1100 they called the Remington Special Field. It was sold for a upland bird gun and only held 3 in the magazine. I think a longer magazine tube would have thrown it out of balance. I have one and killed a lot of birds with it when there were still a lot of quail in the southeast. I found out later it made an excellent deer gun , especially early season when foliage made every shot a close one. With its straight English straight stock it mounted fast and the improved cylinder threw an excellent pattern with buckshot. I still use it on dog hunts because when a deer goes by you on a dog hunt, it usually isn't walking. Only holding 3 in the magazine and one in the chamber has never proved to be a liability when I was using it. I have found on a dog hunt if you hear someone shoot more than twice, no matter how many times he shoots after that, you had better get ready because the deer is probably still running. :D
 
I've tried the longer magazine tubes. The standard length of 4+1 is what I prefer. Longer tubes just ruin the balance and handling characteristics. Not worth 2 more shells when a shotgun can be re-loaded so fast.
 
Cheapness

It is probably Rem being cheap and only having 1 tube config. My son's new 870 has a dowel in it to make it a two shot tube... So dove compliant.
 
Recently Remington has started making a new Express based home defense gun with a six round magazine tube.
The only down side is that the gun cannot use standard 870 barrels, it takes a special barrel with the support ring mounted closer to the muzzle.

The reason Remington makes the 4 shot Police guns is because by a really huge majority, that's what the police buy.
Check most any city police, sheriff's department, state police, and most all Federal agencies and they almost all use 4 shot Remington 870's.

The 4 shot gun is less complicated and more fool-proof than a gun with a magazine extension.
It's easier to pull the barrel off to inspect the gun, without having to totally dissemble the magazine extension, then worry about getting it back together correctly.
(Yes, police sometimes cannot reassemble a Remington magazine extension correctly).

Tradition.
The police have always bought shotguns with standard magazines. Whether that's a longer tube like the old Winchesters, or with the 4 shot tubes that have been standard for most brands of shotguns since WWII.

A standard tube gun is cheaper then one fitted with an extra cost extension.

Hit or drop an extended tube gun and the extension can be dented or even knocked off the gun, rendering it non-operable.
The standard tube can't be knocked off and is more protected by the hand guard.
(You better bet that cops can and will damage guns like this especially during nightwatch versions of "Hold my beer and watch this).

Extended tube guns tend to develop bulged cases due to increased spring pressure and weight of the shell stack, which can cause stoppages.
This appears as bulges in the shell cases between the shell head and shot area.
This is especially common when the gun is stored in an upright squad car lock rack, and even more so in hot summer conditions.
4 shot magazine guns are much less likely to develop shell compression bulges.

For the "civilian" buyer, a 4 shot gun is lighter and faster in action, as well as cheaper and less complicated.
What makes a shotgun the most deadly weapon in the world at short range is the speed at which it can be gotten on target.
Anything you add to the standard gun adds weight and bulk and that slows the gun down.

You have to do a cost-benefit analysis of any accessory added to a shotgun to decide if the loss of speed is outweighed by whatever possible advantage the accessory gives you.
There is no configuration faster on target then a standard 4 shot gun with a standard stock.
 
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