Can regular plated lead bullets be used in muzzle-loaders?

P

Pond James Pond

New member
I am curious to know if regular plated bullets would work in a muzzle-loader.

For example, one gun I've been reading about recently has been the Uberti Remington Revolving Carbine. It is a .44 (.427 I think).

I personally load some .44 Mag loads with a .429 200gn truncated cone bullet. It is a soft bullet, probably pure lead, but with a very thin copper plate and is further coated with a polymer to act as a lubricant in the bore, allowing for higher than usual velocities in loads.
It also has a concave base.

So it is probably pure lead, only 0.002" off the bore of the calibre of the muzzle-loader and already has a lube of sorts on the bullet.

Is there any reason such a bullet could not be used in a muzzle-loader?
 
Plating doesn't add enough of anything to matter. They're loaded with cast bullet data so BP won't matter if the diameter is ok.
 
Absolutely

I am curious to know if regular plated bullets would work in a muzzle-loader.
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Absolutely and your are right on the money for a 50/44, sabot and pistol bullet combo. ...... :)

Would add that your can also use a hard-cast lead pistol bullet and that is what I use in my one and only, in-line. I'm cheap !!!



Be Safe !!!
 
Absolutely and your are right on the money for a 50/44, sabot and pistol bullet combo. ......
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Don't yet know enough about BP to comment on that!! :o

However, for better or worse, no sabots for me. BP is non existent here, so next to no funky variations on the basic premise of BP shooting. I can order in round-ball, minie and conical from other parts of EU, but no guarantees I find sabots or power-belts etc. I'm not even sure if in-line hunting is allowed around Europe. Certainly, isn't here in Estonia as far as I've understood.

Anyway, if I were to entertain this option I would simply be putting BP in a .44 Uberti revolver cylinder, stuffing an oily carboard disc on top or an oily cotton wad, and seating such a plated bullet on top.

If that is possible, then great. :)

I just didn't know if the plating, the polymer film or shape would somehow not gel with the characteristics of BP ignition and BP rifling...
 
The problem with loading modern bullets in a cap and ball pistol/carbine is that they need a rebates base that slips into the chamber easily so as to make alignment straight. Without that they are hard to load straight.

If you look at the conicals meant for these arms you'll see what I mean.

Here is the Lee conical:

I realized that their mold doesn't show it or speak of it. Instead I pulled up a custom conical I had Accurate Molds make for me:

http://www.accuratemolds.com/bullet_detail.php?bullet=45-195C-D.png
 
The bullets I'm thinking of have a rounded edge at the base, but not that rounded!!

I guess I'd have to try!!

What's stopping me? (Apart from the lack of a firearm, caps and BP...)
 
They will likely not stand straight though.

My understanding is that Uberti chambers run .450" and the grooves are .451-2". A .44 caliber modern bullet (.429-.430") won't work.
 
It depends on what you mean by "muzzle loader".

Black powder revolvers are, technically, "breach loaders", because the bullet loads into the breach, not the muzzle.

The difference is important. In an actual muzzle loader, you typically use an expanding bullet like a Minie or Wilkinson bullet. This way it goes down the barrel loosley, but when the charge goes off the bullet expands or obdurates and thus takes up the rifling.

With a breach loader, the bullet can be solid and is simply very slightly oversize to the bore of the barrel, so that when it starts down the barrel it is forced onto the rifling.

With a revolver, as you cram the bullet into the chambers of the cylinder, it should shave a ring of lead off as it goes in due to an interference fit. Any plating on the side of the bullet would thus be shaved off.

I recently experimented with the Lee 452-230-TC bullet in my 1858 Remington. The bullet loads sort-of OK in the chambers due to the rather large chamfer on the tail of the bullet. But I did not find accuracy to be better than round ball at any charge I tried.

http://www.midwayusa.com/product/39...ng-colt-452-diameter-230-grain-truncated-cone

I suspect this is due to the rifling on reproductions being tailored to round ball bullet weights rather than the heavier conical bullets. However an article in Guns of the Old West showed superior accuracy with the Kaido Conical bullet over round ball.

Anyway as has been pointed out, the hard part about using modern cartridge ammo in BP revolvers is there is no smaller-diameter base as there were on period conical revolver bullets. So getting the bullet started in the chamber without it cocking at an angle is hard to do.

Additionally, it is usually impossible to load conical bullets in some modern BP revolvers because the arch in the frame is not deep enough to accommodate the bullet passing under it to get to the loading ram. You can get around this by loading the cylinder off the gun with a separate loading fixture.

Steve
 
My understanding is that Uberti chambers run .450" and the grooves are .451-2". A .44 caliber modern bullet (.429-.430") won't work.
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Duh...

What was I thinking...? :rolleyes:

Now that you mention it, they are supposed to run .454 roundballs.

Well, that idea goes up in a cloud of sulphurous BP smoke!
 
My understanding is that the Uberti Remington NMA's frame does allow for conical loading. My newer (2013) Pietta Remington did not and so I had to modify the opening.

My understanding is that the Uberti has rifling twist rates like that of the Ruger Old Army (1:16"), which is what my newer Pietta does. The older Pietta's had a 1:30" twist.

My Pietta does equally well with my 170 and 195 grn bullets, but then they aren't longer than a ball really. Since the modern .45 Colt also uses this twist there is no reason not to believe it would do well with longer bullets too. My ROA also does equally well.
 
I use the Lee REAL in my muzzleloader. It is over land sized as requires. Bit of force to get the rifling to engrave into it. I prefer this as there's no real chance for it to come off of the charge.
 
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