Can polymer stand the test of time?
- Thread starter TCW
- Start date
Plastic is biodegradeable; we're just impatient... 
(Saw that on a bumper sticker once. Still get a giggle out of it...)
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
(Saw that on a bumper sticker once. Still get a giggle out of it...)
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"..but never ever Fear. Fear is for the enemy. Fear and Bullets."
10mm: It's not the size of the Dawg in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog!
I think that Polymer will long outlast any type of metal used on guns as far as corosion resistance goes.
By the way,,,,since when is plastic biodegradable?
Plastic is one of the worst materials created when it comes to our environment, it is far as biodegradable. You might want to check your books again on that one.
~Jason
By the way,,,,since when is plastic biodegradable?
Plastic is one of the worst materials created when it comes to our environment, it is far as biodegradable. You might want to check your books again on that one.
~Jason
K
KilgorII
Guest
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by BB:
Plastic does break down. It becomes brittle over time and exposure to things like UV light.[/quote]
Absolutly correct. The UV light is high enough energy to break down the carbon-carbon bonds in plastic. Thus it will become brittle and crack if exposed to large amounts of UV radiation.
That being said Glocks are my favorite handguns. They will out last most handguns (IMHO). I do not know the exact polymer used by Glock. The different polymers vary in their ability to withstand UV exposure. So I don't know exactly how much UV light it will take. Just don't leave it on your dash in the magnified sunlight for 10 years and you should be fine
Speaking of dashes, you know how older dashes crack? That is an example of UV light breaking plastic down.
Call Glock and ask them. I'd be interested to know what they say. lol
Plastic does break down. It becomes brittle over time and exposure to things like UV light.[/quote]
Absolutly correct. The UV light is high enough energy to break down the carbon-carbon bonds in plastic. Thus it will become brittle and crack if exposed to large amounts of UV radiation.
That being said Glocks are my favorite handguns. They will out last most handguns (IMHO). I do not know the exact polymer used by Glock. The different polymers vary in their ability to withstand UV exposure. So I don't know exactly how much UV light it will take. Just don't leave it on your dash in the magnified sunlight for 10 years and you should be fine
Speaking of dashes, you know how older dashes crack? That is an example of UV light breaking plastic down.Call Glock and ask them. I'd be interested to know what they say. lol
Who cares whether something that costs $600 (more or less) lasts for 75 years? I sure as heck don't. I plan on being dead by then. There isn't a Glock, USP, SigPro, Steyr, Mauser or any other form of mass-produced plastic (or, for that matter, metal) gun that will ever become a collector's item. Nothing short of heaven and hell is permanent. That being said, however, these guns are "durable enough." If/when they wear out, let your great grandchild buy a new one!
[This message has been edited by Oscar (edited October 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Oscar (edited October 23, 2000).]
"If/when they wear out, let your great grandchild buy a new one!"
If they are able to by then!
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
--Patrick Henry, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)
GOA, JPFO, PPFC, CSSA, LP, ARI, NRA
If they are able to by then!
DAL
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Reading "Capitalism: The Unknown Ideal," by Ayn Rand, should be required of every politician and in every high school.
"Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are ruined."
--Patrick Henry, during Virginia's Convention to Ratify the Constitution (1788)
GOA, JPFO, PPFC, CSSA, LP, ARI, NRA
This seems simple to me.
If you take a slab of Stainless Steel or similar metal and then you take a slab of quality polymer or just polymer for that matter and let them both just sit around and be subjected to every day elements I can almost guarentee you that the polymer will show less damage/corrosion than the metal does.
For the amount of time that most of us will be alive. you have a better chance of observing first hand the corosion of a gun made of metal than you would polymer, after that who knows.
I have had Sigs that have started to rust in spots a few months after I had bought it NIB, I have a late 80s G23 that looks like new except for minor holster wear around the muzzle.
Thats clear enough for me.
~Jason
If you take a slab of Stainless Steel or similar metal and then you take a slab of quality polymer or just polymer for that matter and let them both just sit around and be subjected to every day elements I can almost guarentee you that the polymer will show less damage/corrosion than the metal does.
For the amount of time that most of us will be alive. you have a better chance of observing first hand the corosion of a gun made of metal than you would polymer, after that who knows.
I have had Sigs that have started to rust in spots a few months after I had bought it NIB, I have a late 80s G23 that looks like new except for minor holster wear around the muzzle.
Thats clear enough for me.
~Jason
The key advantage of polymers -- and other composites -- is not corrosion resistance; rather, it is immunity to metallic fatigue-based crack initiation/propagation. While non-corrosive properties are an excellent byproduct, the fact that polymers "flex" rather than "fracture" is essential.
[This message has been edited by RWK (edited October 23, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by RWK (edited October 23, 2000).]
Will Beararms
New member
Earth calling TFL'ers! Earth calling TFL'ers!
UV inhibitors in Plastic prolong their lifespan!
UV inhibitors in Plastic prolong their lifespan!
At the risk of boring some of you with repetition: This info came from a forensic engineer of my ('net) acquaintance:
"I did a little research and got a smattering of information on the Glock plastic 'formula'. One source says "more highly guarded than the Coke formula". From 3 human and 5 technical sources, Glock uses an out-sourced proprietary hybrid polymer mix with a base of Nylon 6. The frames are cast and offer high strength, wear resistance, abrasion resistance, and good resiliency, good ductility and toughness. Fracture mechanics are excellent with defect ratios below 1. Do not compare to extruded Nylons because it is different. Casting prices range from $3-$50/pound depending on process and intricacy. Commerical price for hi-grade Nylon 6 is about $3.50/lb. Commerical price for hi-carbon steel is about $1.50/lb. Sounds to me like the Glock is actually a better buy than most steel guns. The Glock is considered highly-intricate due to imbedded metallic components. Straight Nylon 6 offers long term performance at elevated and depressed temperatures. Chemically stable in a majority of environments, attacked directly by very strong acids and bases (better than steel actually). UV exposure results in degradation over an extended period of time. 2-3% carbon black virtually eliminates UV degradation and Carbon-Black does not become readily absorbed in Nylons offering higly increased useful life spans. Loss of mechanical properties with 2% Carbon-Black is less than 0.05% on an elevated UV exposure test equivalent to approximately 100 years. Hydrolytically attacked by water in excess of 120 degrees. Basically, no hot-tubbing with your Glock and you will be fine. Tupperware is not made from Nylon BTW. So, that gives some properties of the base material. I do know that several stabilizers are added to increase UV and temperature resistance. I have considered running some tests to get a spectral analysis and then doing Deconvolution by Integration, but this only gets me the % concentration of each element, not the actual chain information. Deformulation of plastics is one tough mother...Hope this answered some questions....Melting point is 420 degrees F. Thermal index rating of 284 degrees F (maintains shape and properties up to that point).
"
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
"I did a little research and got a smattering of information on the Glock plastic 'formula'. One source says "more highly guarded than the Coke formula". From 3 human and 5 technical sources, Glock uses an out-sourced proprietary hybrid polymer mix with a base of Nylon 6. The frames are cast and offer high strength, wear resistance, abrasion resistance, and good resiliency, good ductility and toughness. Fracture mechanics are excellent with defect ratios below 1. Do not compare to extruded Nylons because it is different. Casting prices range from $3-$50/pound depending on process and intricacy. Commerical price for hi-grade Nylon 6 is about $3.50/lb. Commerical price for hi-carbon steel is about $1.50/lb. Sounds to me like the Glock is actually a better buy than most steel guns. The Glock is considered highly-intricate due to imbedded metallic components. Straight Nylon 6 offers long term performance at elevated and depressed temperatures. Chemically stable in a majority of environments, attacked directly by very strong acids and bases (better than steel actually). UV exposure results in degradation over an extended period of time. 2-3% carbon black virtually eliminates UV degradation and Carbon-Black does not become readily absorbed in Nylons offering higly increased useful life spans. Loss of mechanical properties with 2% Carbon-Black is less than 0.05% on an elevated UV exposure test equivalent to approximately 100 years. Hydrolytically attacked by water in excess of 120 degrees. Basically, no hot-tubbing with your Glock and you will be fine. Tupperware is not made from Nylon BTW. So, that gives some properties of the base material. I do know that several stabilizers are added to increase UV and temperature resistance. I have considered running some tests to get a spectral analysis and then doing Deconvolution by Integration, but this only gets me the % concentration of each element, not the actual chain information. Deformulation of plastics is one tough mother...Hope this answered some questions....Melting point is 420 degrees F. Thermal index rating of 284 degrees F (maintains shape and properties up to that point).
"
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Make mine lean, mean, and 9x19!
Not a chemical engineer but any handgun that can be frozen to -30 degrees F, is "chipped" out of the ice, and fires without breaking or cracking is okay in my book. Any handgun that can be thrown into mud, left for a month, and then removed and fired without incident or breakage is tops in my book. Any gun, subjected to sand, heat, and the hostile enviroment of the desert, picked up, and fired without breakage, any incidents, or misfirings is okay in my book. The only two guns to survive this test... HK USP's and Glock.. and I hate Glocks.
USP45usp
P.S. The ammo is in the gun thoughtout these tests.... they are not loaded "afterward" but are subjected to the same treatment.
USP45usp
P.S. The ammo is in the gun thoughtout these tests.... they are not loaded "afterward" but are subjected to the same treatment.