Campus cops doing WHAT!?!?

J

Jordan

New member
My wife, a engineering student at University of Alaska Fairbanks, came home mad after a late evening (10pm'ish) studying at the campus library.
Seems the campus cops were canvassing the library, going table to table checking ID's. ...to make sure you aren't a vagrant or something presumably?

She also said it is the admitted policy of the CC's to indescrimanatly (or maybe QUITE descriminatly) pull over vehicles at night for no other reason than to check papers, inquire about beverages consumed.. whatever else comes to their curious, non civil-rights-comprehending minds.

Now I know all the ways that these practices are illegal and wrong... but is there POSSIBLY something I'm missing? Are State University campuses somehow Constitution Free Zones? Are these CC's "legally" enjoying this LEO utopia of limitless authority?

Thanks for sharing your experiences or anything you may know on this subject.
 
Excuse me - do you have a legal opinion on this?

The school library is not necessarily open to the public just because they are a state institution (is it a state school?).

Are the dorms? Can anyone just sit in the dorm lounge as long as they want?

I work in a universites and late night libraries are easy targets for criminals and perverts.

I have no problem with an ID check in the library.

As far as the car checks on campus, again what is the law?

Why don't you go talk to the campus cops and ask what is up?

Most schools have safety committees.

Find out the policy on stopping cars before the rhetoric of Constitution free blah blah.

Alcohol abuse is a terrible problem on campuses. Pushers frequent some to find customers.

Take a deep breath
 
It's wrong. Especially the vehicle pulling over. There is a great deal of LE worship in the gun community that dismiss abuses of authority by LE.

[This message has been edited by 6forsure (edited April 02, 2000).]
 
6forsure,
I think as far as the I.D. checks go, there may be probable cause to check. I wouldn't object to this. The vehicle searches go too far though. You must have probable cause. I will never willingly submit to a vehicle search unless there is good probable cause that the officer can explain to me. For instance: If he see's my rifle in the vehicle, and tells me he wants to search the car for any other WEAPONS, then sure, I'll allow that, but I always find out what their probable cause is. I may not always require him to go through the hassle of obtaining a warrant, but I at least need to know what I did to give him probable cause to search my car. That I happen to be on a college campus, or I'm driving a vehicle that "looks like a druggie car" doesn't meet my standard of probable cause, nor will it pass most judge's test of probable cause either.
A bit of good news for the Texans out there:
The legislature is trying to get a car considered the same as a house when it comes to search and seizure, therefore making it alright to carry your pistol in your car with you when you're just driving to the store. I don't know all the details, but I do know it never got to the floor this session, but with any luck, and if I can get some more legislators to back it, maybe we'll get it through in 2002. When the time comes, I make postings all over the internet for you guys to contact your state legislators.
 
Campus cops are real leo wannabees, especially the younger night shift ones & the junior student patrol. Give this mindset a badge & you have Starsky & Hutch in a cushman.

On my campus they were famous for the phrase
"You don't seem to know who the man is in this situation"

They will harrass anyone, cause they are the BMOC. Rights? What rights? It's their territory. It's for the childeren's sake that they are shaking down the library. Respect is a 2 way street.

dZ
 
You guys are talking out of your A$$. Maybe it's not exaclty like being a LEO but alot are former LEO and others want to become them. As with every profession there are bad apples. But the amount of drugs/alcohol on a campus is so dense. These CC deal with drunk/high student all the time and drunk/high + young = stupid at least in my experience. I'm 25 and do attend college full time and I don't do drugs and only drink on occasions. And I can go get any drug I want here in about 10 min. I've yet to run into any of the asses on campus or any of the asses that are "real" LEO's.

Cyric13
 
Glenn, I think Jordan asked some reasonable questions. Some of your response does go to the perhaps special nature of a college campus, but arguments justifying the CC's actions by citing other problems on campus really aren't logical, IMHO.

We've all met LEO's that think all Constitutional arguments are just fluff and a hassle to them in the performance of their duties. And, every intrusion by government can be 'justified' by pointing out this or that 'benefit' to society.

I'm curious myself about the limits. In Arizona, we have a number of poorly conceived firearms rules on some of our campuses. This could be an interesting thread.
 
Glenn: You're scaring me man!

Reading your post next to some of these others; is it any wonder that gun enthusiasts can't unite?

Let's take a look at some of your points:

Glenn: "The library is not necessarily open to the public... just because state institution."

--Tell me why. I just got off the phone with campus cops and they don't agree with you. Further, any ID was acceptable. Not just student ID. If you are at a table studying, where is probable cause to suspect that you're a "pervert and criminal"?

Glenn: "..libraries are easy targets for perverts and criminals."

--Here, we are justifying CC's violations and intrusions in the same way the anti's do. "For the children" sort of thing.

Glenn: "I have no problem with ID checks"

--Luckily, the Supreme Court does.

Glenn: "..car checks on campus, what is the law?"

--Why would laws regarding stops, searches, and questioning be any different on campus than off? That is the whole point of this topic.

Glenn: "..most schools have safety commitees..find out the policy.."

--A "SAFETY COMMITEE" might have the authority to pen up a document that supercedes the Supreme Law of this land!?

Glenn: "..rhetoric about Constitution free blah blah."

--As memorable quotes go, this ranks right below "Four score and seven years..." Good job Glenn!

[This message has been edited by Jordan (edited April 02, 2000).]
 
Libraries of public schools are public places. I've never had to show student ID nor have I seen any sign indicating that enrollment was a condition of being in the library. I've been in UC, Cal State, and JC libraries and none have required ID for anything other than checking out a book.

Places where enrollment is required, like a computer lab, access is controlled at entry.

The "these campus cops deal with a lot of bad people" doesn't wash. They're dealing with students who are motivated to comply to the school's regulations so that they can get their degree. By no means are they dealing with the dregs of society.

I could accept an ID check if they were looking for a specific person, I fit into that description, and they verbalized that fact. A blanket ID check isn't kosher though.
 
A constitutional right is a RIGHT, not a privilege. "Starsky and Hutch in a Cushman" is a good description for these wannabe-but-for-some-reason-can't-be cops.

Take a step back and see the big picture--don't let them weaken the constitution any further, even if the amendment involved isn't important to you.
 
Wannabee cops? The campus police at my alma mater(Southern Illinois University) are genuine police officers commisioned by the state. These aren't just a bunch of kids running around with badges. They are all PTI graduates, many with experience with other localities. The university does have a unit of part time student patrol officers. All they do is walk around with radios and sticks and call the campus police when they need them.
 
The campus police where I work and was graduated (Med College of Va.) are sworn poloce officers and every bit as good as the local and state guys.
 
Houndawg and Allen, you are right, I made assumptions based on my own experience, which is different from yours. :o

This thread should be focused on the constitutional right to be secure against unwarranted search or seizure of one's person. I don't want no trouble. ;)
 
As long as I pay taxes in the state, I'll use the libraries at will - no problem, the librarians seem to share my opinion.

As a side note about Campus "police" While I was doing my graduate work a few years ago, I used to work all night in the lab pretty often, or get up at 3 or 4 am to get an early start. There were several of the wonderful campus police that would hide out and play cards in on of the locked grad student lounges that was in an out of the way place. They would be there from around 2AM until almost 6 at least a couple of days a week. It took some of the boredom out of the long hours to **** with them from time to time.

Oh ****!!! Me running down the hall, followed by large BANG (co2 in soda bottle - inside really lound steel box). The looks on their faces were amusing.... Nor did they ever say much about the "smoke" boiling up from the drains in the room they were in...

I'm sure that many university law enforcement officials are professionals, my experience was not that way. On the other hand, machinists, custodial staff, glasblowers, electronics folks, etc, etc... were ALL outstanding individuals. I still fish and hunt with one of the janitors from time to time.....

I'm sure this was a lot more than you really cared to hear (read), I guess it's late and I should hit the sack!

Cheers!
 
As Bedwetter..er, Ledbetter (kidding) correctly pointed out, the spirit of the thread is rights violations in a place where the populace (kids, only recently having left home) are accustomed to bowing, unquestioningly to "authority". Not so much whether or not the cops are "real".

In this case there are both-- real LEO's and wanna-be kid cops (they call them "comunity service officers") who, I assume, are pursuing LE as a career.

Either way I'm not sure which is worse-- Real cops, who ought to know better, behaving this way? Or criminal justice students serving an internship of sorts, learning that this is what "police work" is all about and ingraining the us vs. them attitude?
 
Having never served in a campus police, I do know that it is a specialized form of police work and a necessary evil tolerated by the College/University because of criminal activity from both within and without. There are thefts, rapes, robberies, burglaries, demonstrations (or riots), & drugs just like in your own community. (Anybody ever visit Yale? Leave the campus and you're in a war zone.) Often times exaccerbating these problems is an indifferent administration which may not support its police department in its efforts to provide a safe environment for learning and academic development.

Mind you, the laws which apply to your regular police or sheriff's dept. also applies to campus police. Random car stops without probable cause are not legal. Checking ID in a library may be legal, depending on the rights reserved to itself by the College/Univ. towards entrance. Some univ. libraries won't admit students unless they're at the graduate level.

I don't disagree that there are some officers who couldn't make it anywhere but a campus agency, I've also know highly capable folks who are currently serving in a campus agency.
 
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