came in today's e-mail, read it and weep, or better yet, raise hell!

A

alan

New member
Sponsors Try Sneaking National ID Card onto Iraq War/Tsunami Aid Bill
-- National ID card is bad for gun owners, bad for constitutional
government

Gun Owners of America E-Mail Alert
8001 Forbes Place, Suite 102, Springfield, VA 22151
Phone: 703-321-8585 / FAX: 703-321-8408
http://www.gunowners.org

------------------------------------
"Republicans swept to power in Congress 10 years ago championing
state prerogatives, and one of their first acts was to repeal federal
speed-limit requirements. Another was aimed at ending unfunded state
mandates. So last week's House vote to require costly and intrusive
federal standards for state drivers licenses is a measure of how far
the party has strayed from these federalist principles."
--Wall Street Journal, Feb. 19, 2005
------------------------------------

Thursday, March 3, 2005


It's now time to shift our focus to the U.S. Senate.

You may remember that the House of Representatives recently passed
H.R. 418, the National ID card bill. But the bill has been met with
a lukewarm reception in the Senate.

So House sponsors are now trying to increase the bill's chances by
sneaking it onto a politically popular piece of legislation -- the
Iraq War/Tsunami relief bill.

H.R. 418 was largely supported in the House because it purports to
deal with illegal immigration and terrorism.

Too bad that H.R. 418 does not do what it is supposed to do:

* Illegals will still be able to get a driver's license without proof
of citizenship in those states that permit it (about 11).

* Illegals will still be able to pour across our southern border
because funding for only three miles of the 1,000 mile border was
provided in H.R. 418.

* And terrorists will be able to fly with a driver's license or a
passport -- and pilots are still largely unarmed thanks to the
refusal of the federal government to comply with two laws enacted by
Congress.


H.R. 418 is Bad for Constitutional Government

The Tenth Amendment to the U.S. Constitution says, "The powers not
delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by
it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the
people."

So, what part of "States" don't they understand? Or, to put it
another way, where is it that the Constitution mentions federal
control over drivers' licenses?

Yet, a faction of usually pro-freedom representatives in the House
seem determined to put the federal government in charge of who may or
may not get a driver's license -- perhaps the last major prerogative
retained by the states.

This is the same group that is embracing a $2.57 trillion federal
budget -- almost three times the level of federal spending only 25
years ago. They have simply lost their way.

Under section 202(b) of H.R. 418 -- slated to be added to the
"supplemental appropriations bill" -- the federal government gives
itself the authority to determine every feature on your driver's
license. Some features are explicitly listed, but these enumerated
features are "A MINIMUM." In addition to these, the government can
require your fingerprints, your retina scan, your concealed carry
status, or any other requirement it chooses -- by executive fiat.


Backdoor Gun Control

Under section 202(c), the government grants itself the power to
determine what you need to do to get a driver's license -- and who
may or may not get one. Some requirements are listed, but these
enumerated requirements are "A MINIMUM."

The government can impose any requirements it chooses by executive
fiat. If, under a Hillary Clinton administration, a militia group --
or GOA or NRA -- were determined to be a "terrorist organization,"
your driver's license would be gone.

But that's not all: Under section 203, your personal information
could be turned over to a non-secure database accessible to, among
others, the corrupt and crime-ridden Mexican police.

And, under section 202(a)(2), the federal government would solely
determine "whether a State is meeting the requirements" imposed by
that very same federal government!


Spurious Arguments in Favor of H.R. 418

So what are conservative politicians saying about this monstrosity?

They say the bill mentions nothing about retina scans. And that's
true. Instead, it gives the federal government an unlimited grant of
power to determine every feature on your driver's license -- and it
demands that you trust the government not to abuse its powers.

Have these people been asleep for the last thirty years? Have they
not heard of Ruby Ridge? Or Waco? Or Elian Gonzalez?


How Officials Abuse Records on Honest Citizens

Columnist Paul Craig Roberts has been critical of the
unconstitutional growth of federal police power. He found out after
having been "randomly" pulled aside for intensive screening at
airports that he had been put on the No Fly List.

Every time he flies he has to prove he is not a bomber by submitting
to intensive screening. And this is what they do to an ex-Marine and
ex-cop!

Roberts' case illustrates the kind of abuse that a national data base
is already being used for.

Gun owners have long experienced the unconstitutional requirement of
proving who they are when they buy a gun. The problem becomes more
than theoretical when a buyer's name is the same as a prohibited
person.

The buyer usually -- even if it takes a few days -- is able to prove
who they are. But the records, like the No Fly List, are not
permanently corrected. The citizen-suspect must prove his innocence
each time he buys a gun or flies.


More Spurious Arguments

In the 9/11 bill last year, Congress included some scary National ID
card provisions. Those same Congressmen are arguing that H.R. 418
would limit the scope of those provisions. However, the simple fact
is that a LIMITLESS grant of power does not limit anything.

The politicians argue that the problem of illegal immigration is so
profound that it overrides the provisions of the Constitution.

We agree that the problem is severe. But H.R. 418 would not bar
states from issuing drivers' licenses to illegal aliens --
particularly those who have applied for asylum or status adjustment.
Instead, it penalizes American citizens, while coddling illegal
aliens.

ACTION: Please write your two United States Senators and ask them to
reject any effort to add National ID Cards to the Iraq/Tsunami Relief
bill.

You can use the pre-written message below and send it as an e-mail by
visiting the GOA Legislative Action Center at
http://www.gunowners.org/activism.htm (where phone and fax numbers
are also available).


----- Pre-written letter -----

Dear Senator:

A number of House members seem determined to give the federal
government the power to mandate every feature of a driver's license
-- and to dictate who may or may not obtain one.

The bill -- H.R. 418 -- would list "MINIMUM" standards. But its
grant of power to the federal government to control every aspect of a
driver's license is limitless.

As a gun owner -- and an American who actually believes the
Constitution -- I think this federal power-grab is very dangerous.

Now, these House sponsors appear determined to sneak their bill onto
legislation to fund the war in Iraq and provide tsunami relief.

Please resist their effort to tie their agenda to legislation
intended to help victims of tragedy and support American troops in
the Middle East.

Sincerely,


POSTERS NOTE:

I prefer to write my own notes/letters, however the above might be helpful. Re method of dispatch, our congress and senate critters seem still to hide behind their wall of sanitation or irradiation, so forget "snail mail", Faxing works, e-mail works, and the telephone works, however re this note the following. Of the several toll free numbers that reached Capitol Switchboard, the last was 1-888-508-2974. It "died" as of the the other day. Message indicates "disconnected, no further information available". Could it be that the motley pesants, in the auditory sense of the term made so bold as to dirty the carpets of those congressional and senate offices, thereby disturbing the quiet deliberations of the "quality" that therein abide? Say it isn't so Joe, say it isn't so.
 
The bill -- H.R. 418 -- would list "MINIMUM" standards. But its
grant of power to the federal government to control every aspect of a
driver's license is limitless.
Click to expand...
It's ironic.
Back in the 1992 election, a friend of mine that is 100% Republican made fun of Al Gore saying the automobile was the greatest threat to Americans ever.
No doubt, Algore's reasons were some greeny enviroweeny thing. It's ironic though that it looks like Al was right.....just off base on his reasons.

Yuck! I feel "soiled" somehow agreeing with Al Gore.
 
I think (and hope) that Bush should threaten to veto any legislation with such pork/backdoor legislation in it. Then use the press to expose these people who put such things into the bills. He can accuse them of "hurting the poor". :D
 
I think (and hope) that Bush should threaten to veto any legislation with such pork/backdoor legislation in it.
Click to expand...
I would have thought (and hoped) that he'd have Veto'd the Patriot Act. He didn't.

Bush has been brilliant and steadfast in the International Arena; he's been a complete disappointment when it comes to respecting the Bill of Rights as LIMITS to legislation. It's his Achilles Heel and history will not be kind about it.
Rich
 
email, read it and weep, or......

Don't need any more IDs in my wallet, have Texas DL, Texas CHL, Social Security Card, and VA ID Card. In addition in the gun safe there is a TNG and a Marine Corps honorable discharge, a DD-214, and a birth certificate.

Now why would I need another piece of plastic to tote? So some overbearing politico's ID cop can say, "Show me your papers"? Baloney!
 
Bush has been brilliant and steadfast in the International Arena; he's been a complete disappointment when it comes to respecting the Bill of Rights as LIMITS to legislation.
Click to expand...

I agree. As other peoples are gaining their freedoms, he is allowing us to lose ours.

I believe that the federal government should have the limitation that Oregon has with it's bills. The bill MUST be for only one specific thing with no addones that do not pertain to the specific thing on the bill (ie, you can have a bill that will give property rights back to the people and if you add on something pertaining to dog permits then the bill is null and void even if passed).

As for the Patriot Act (and the Patriot Act II if it gets through), that's just bad mojo for the American people. We were promised that it wouldn't be abused but they are already using it for domestic crime and not for terrorist crime and it's going to get worse IMHO :(.

Wayne
 
Unfortunately, I would not count on GWB to veto his own death warrant. As for his performance re "international affairs", to say the very least, that is an open question, at best.

He should have vetoed Campaign Reform too, notice that he didn't? I'm afraid that I've simply given up trying to understand what in blazes it is that drives the man, not that my opinion matters one tiny wit.

Yes, the Partiot Act was likely abused within an hour of it's enactment, though given that they hadn't read the thing, neither The House nor The Senate was likely aware of that, and one wonders as to whether they cared?

By the way, did anyone happen to notice that use of Social Security Numbers re drivers licenses, that had been "stopped" according to The Intelligence Reform Act, is back, courtesy of H.R. 418. With all it's references to "minimum standards", what is, or might be the end point? Possibly having identification numbers tatooed on our foreheads?

What wth regard to all of the above, and the original post, does anyone ever pause to wonder as to what the devil ever happened to THE LAND OF THE FREE, THE HOME OF THE BRAVE?
 
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Yes, the Partiot Act was likely abused within an hour of it's enactment, though given that they hadn't read the thing, neither The House nor The Senate was likely aware of that, and one wonders as to whether they cared?
Click to expand...
Ummmmm, I could be wrong, but I don't believe this was an Admin introduced Bill. So, if Bush didn't introduce it and neither the Senate nor the House read it, just who is it that got it thru?
Rich
 
Rich Lucibella Quote:
Yes, the Partiot Act was likely abused within an hour of it's enactment, though given that they hadn't read the thing, neither The House nor The Senate was likely aware of that, and one wonders as to whether they cared?


Ummmmm, I could be wrong, but I don't believe this was an Admin introduced Bill. So, if Bush didn't introduce it and neither the Senate nor the House read it, just who is it that got it thru?

*******

Rich:

If memory serves, sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't, the price, among many other things, of getting old, the damned thing started as a DRAFT at DOJ, under AG Ashcroft. It didn't even have a number, supposedly. Still, as to it "not being administration introduced". John Ashcroft wasn't Clinton's AG, he was appointed by Bush. In any case, the legislation was rammed through House and Senate, with the critters there later complaining about how they hadn't even had a chance to look at the thing, let alone to actually read it, which from the way parts of it were written, would require a significant amount of reference material at hand. Despite the foregoing, they all voted for it, which surely says something about them and their nature, at least it so seems to me. It also seems that things haven't improved in any noticeable manner.

Of course, considerable question could be raised as to the veracity of anyone therein, that being Senate and or House. If there happen to be any really straight shooters therein, my apologies to them.

One last thing that I'm curious as to is the following. How come our government sends troops and others all over the world in order to bring freedom to those who, in many cases, wouldn't know freedom if you dropped a truckload of it on their heads, while back home in the U.S., it appears that government is intent on denuding it's citizens of the same freedom, or are there different kinds of freedom?
 
alan-
I'll defer to your memory on this, as mine isn't 100%. Once you painfully remind me of the name "Ashcroft", it certainly makes sense.
Rich
 
Bush will sign it, and Congress will sadly probably pass it without too much ado. Anything under the guise of 'stopping terrorism' seems to be greeted well with this Administration and most of Congress. Many people are waking up several years too late to the mistakes of the Patriot Act and hopefully will understand that this poses yet another threat to our rights. Given that it is distastefully attached to the tsunami relief bill, however, I suspect people will not bother to fight it.
 
I would have no problem with a federal standard for licenses:

i.e.
MUST be a legal resident&Citizen
MUST have a proper photograph, standard to prevent fakes harder, etc
MUST be good for X years


Right now, we have all the negatives.. but none of the pro's of a standardized system :-/


i.e. they can already track you coast to coast via computer. but a state can still knowingly give a DL to a criminal/illegal alien/terrorist.
 
Rich Lucibella alan-
I'll defer to your memory on this, as mine isn't 100%. Once you painfully remind me of the name "Ashcroft", it certainly makes sense.

********

My memory isn't what it used to be either, ah the golden years, however let me tell you a little story.

Prior to passage of USAPATRIOTACT there was some comment on what was, at the time, a draft floating around DOJ. Anyhow, before it got into Congress, I posted objections and comments on various sites, soliciting opposition to the thing, based on what I had read. There was no bill number available at the time.

One gentleman chastized me for soliciting opposition to a legislative proposal I couldn't name, or couldn't indicate a bill number for. Make a long story short, it sailed through both House and Senate, as you know, virtually without a single question, it seemed, and came out as UASPATRIOTACT, warts and all.

Care to bet money against the same thing happening, one way of another, with this POS H.R. 418, unless there is a truly ungodly amount of hell raised, which looking at the general poublic via what I admit is lilkely a jaundiced view, I do not realistically expect to see. Unfortunately, this will bring us a lot closer to additional losses of individual freedoms, and ultimately, to A POLICE STATE. By the way, ULTIMATELY might be a whole lot closer than many realize.

Some might inquire as to how come I'm not rich, being so smart. By the lights of some, I might be "rich", I don't so consider myself, but who knows what others might conclude. As for the rest of it, I never claimed to be all that smart.

What was it that The Chaplin of The House once offered, having been interrupted in his prayers or thoughts by some brash congress critter, who finding the chaplin in prayer asked the following. Sir, Do you look at the country and pray for The Congress? The chaplin answered succinently, No I look at The Congress and pray for the country. Seems as if nothing much has changed, doesn't it?
 
Something that should have been made an issue a very long time ago, is this legislative perversion and abomination sometimes referred to as "riders" in legislative bills. All legislative bills need to be single subject pieces for individual consideration and voting by Congress.

The legislature voting on a single legislative bill combining more than subject is akin to a jury passing a single verdict on two different court cases.

Anyway, George W Bush is not going to veto this, whatever form it takes. You can bank on that.
 
Rich Lucibella:

In my last post, I might well have sounded overly harsh, perhaps seemingly refusing to "cut some slack to the people", this a reflection of my jaundiced view of the general population, which all to often appears supine, to use a polite term. It might also be that I'm not all that smart either, however one thing seems to stand out.

I do not know about newspaper coverage, radio and or television coverge either regarding H.R. 418 and similat stunts, however in the Pittsburgh area, where I live, the Post-Gazette, a week or two ago carried passing mention of The House passing H.R. 418, and that likely it might become a "rider" to some other "must pass bill". I recall hearing exactly nothing re this legislation in television or radio newscases, and the P-G atricle was a one time thing. There hasn't been a single editorial comment on the thing, nor has there been a single Letter To The Editor, pro, con or middling.

So while the general public can certainly be called to task for it's inaction, or what seems to be it's inaction, as I have clearly done, what of the vaunted FREE PRESS, which most certainly should and can bring such matters to the attention of that same public. As I mentioned earlier, if I can see the disconnect between our government running all around the world, bringing "freedom" to people who never had it, and who might not recognize it if it were dumped on their heads, while at the same time government operates in a manner designed to limit the freedoms of Americans in their own country, then allegedly "smart people" like all those talking heads, and their backup staffs should certainly be able to see the same disconnect, and raise hell about it, or have they been bought off?

I think the question is interesting. What do readers think?

LAK:

The problem of "riders" that you mentioned is a very real problem, as are other aspects of the thing, that I don't think you caught, such as the business of "little noticed insertations", made by unnamed staffers, usually in the dead of night, into tremendous "Omnibus Bills", the ones that run thousands of pages, which nobody has read. Hanging Tsunami Relief onto evert proposal that comes along, especially when the actual wording is very carefully examined will lead to the end if individual freedom and individual liberty in this country. By the way, HOMELAND SECURITY, or whatever the hell it might be called, will not be enhanced, likely it too will suffer.
 
FYI, the Patriot Act had been floating around in draft form a lot longer than people realize. DOJ had wanted to implement at least portions of it for years prior to Bush taking office. In part, this was to eliminate the "wall" between the counterintelligence and anti-crime portions of the federal gov't, and even those within the FBI itself. When 9/11 happened, the draft got dusted off, called the Patriot Act, and passed.
 
alan,

Thanks, but as it happens I am very much aware of what the plan for a national ID card, how the "Patriot" Act was railroaded through Congress as another example.

I have written of it in the past - although perhaps not on this forum. It is not that I mind getting blasted over that, just that I like to take a break every once in awile and let a few others do the writing for a change, and maybe expand a bit as the thread developes. ;)
 
LAK;

First, it was NOT my intention to criticize either you, or any efforts you have expended re bringing matters to attention. I've spent a bit of time in that direction myself, sometimes wondering how much, if any good it does. It is, in any case, effort that must be expended, or so it seems to me.

While I personally have precious little faith in the wakefullness or even the concern regarding such matters as might be held by the general poublic, I submit that the more egregious error lies in and with our so-called FREE PRESS, which in-so-far as I can see spends more time and effort writing about some riduculous sporting event, and or who might be sleeping with whom, which will be forgotten by tomorrow, than it does about reporting/commenting/discussing the abuses of runaway government and the numbnuts, if not worse in The Congress and Senate.

Unfortunately, I suspect that H.R. 418 will, one way or another, become the law of the land, and individual freedom will be that much more diminished. In passing, I think it likely that this so-called Bankruptcy Reform legislation will also become law this time, notwithstanding biblical admonitions re NOT WORSHIPING GRAVEN IMAGES (CREDIT CARD ISSUERS AMONG OTHERS), which so many congress critters tout so loudly.

For instance, I've seen precious little in my local paper about H.R. 418. How about you, and why this lack of coverage of matters of great significance? Answer that question to your own satisfaction, whichever way that might be. In passing, I also believe that our "elected things" will do percious little regarding such debacle and the lack of oversight given to such matters as the recently brought to some attention screw-up with ChoicePoint, one of the larger of our INFORMATION MONGERS, or INFORMATION VAMPIRES, your choice in terms. In any event, they are an "off-shoot" of Equifax.

The question of "what the hell is wrong with the general population" comes often to mind, and I never serouisly claimed to be all that smart.
 
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