Camdex Machine

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Anyone on here run a camdex? Or similar?

Just curious. A 1050 Dillon with automatic drive would be wayyy cheaper, like 25k cheaper. But a camdex can put out 3500-4000 rounds/ hour. I'm not sure what a fully automated Dillon would do.
I have a contract I'm finishing up soon and could buy either one if I wanted.

Again just curious.
 
I can tell you that a friend and I, working as a team and with primer tubes already filled, were able to do 1800 rounds in 45 minutes on a 1050. 45 auto. Automatic case feed but no automatic bullet feeder. Manual operation of the the handle. That's 2400 rounds and hour. That means two automated 1050's that ran at the same speed would outperform the Camdex peak production spec.

That said, I'm not sure the automated 1050's are at that same peak speed. Maybe you'd need three. Besides, peak production rate isn't the only spec to compare. Filling primer tubes may not be necessary on the Camdex (I don't know). Mean time between failures might be much better on the more expensive machine. Down time for repairs. Maintenance down time per hour of operation. No idea. Conversely, if you have to buy three Dillons and one goes down, the other two are still running and the other two don't necessarily have to be loading the same cartridge.

Lots of things to consider.
 
Having more than one production machine preserves some production capacity if a machine breaks down, and they will*. The Camdex has higher capacity, but if it goes down, you have a zero production rate.

Once you have enough sales that require more production adding the Camdex would free up the Dillion machines for shorter runs of different calibers.

* Service is another consideration, can you service and replace parts or do your need a service technician to do repairs.
 
The question is will you?
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Not sure.....

I am in the process of an FFL 06. I have several individuals who shoot xtc both with me, and others I am acquainted with who are willing to pay up for some loads tuned to their rifles.

I'm not doing this as my bread winning job....just a side/hobby job. No contracts or anything like that. Just folks I know and maybe some gun shows or LGS's.

Anyway, .223 is the cartridge...but Nick makes a good point, I could run several 1050's for the price of a camdex.

The other thing is, camdex machines make caliber conversions on a 1050 look cheap and easy.

Anyway...it would be neat to sit and eat jerky while my machine pumps out 3000 rounds per hour or more. But more likely I would be spending all my time and money fixing the darn thing. And I am not a machinist, but not incompetent either.
 
My automated 1050 will load 1000 rounds in 52 minutes. All I have to do is stop by the room and keep everything full every 5 minutes.

I have about $2500 in it and most of the time spent on the project was learning how to program the PLC.

Have repaired parts for Camdex machines but don't know them inside and out. I do have a friend that spent years at a full time job keeping a room full of them going though.

Used ones will suck up lots of time and money depending on condition, new ones will have you out $30,000 before you make your first round.

Caliber conversions on one are going to be north of $7,500 and by the time you have it running like a clock and know how to get it to do that, you won't want to touch it and mess up all your work.

So if you do get one, don't waste money on conversions until you get it running, as you might then decide to just and another entire machine vs tearing one down and starting all over.

If you buy used be aware that Camdex parts are not cheap, one can make good money repairing them though, and they are not really designed with sacrificial parts. So if one part is worn, it's mating part is generally done too. Last thing is that it's not uncommon to see used machines stripped of their bullet, brass and primer collators. The MA Systems collators were over $1000 each more than a decade ago, so put down all the parts your not getting and add them to the total before you start throwing money at one.

Despite having a room full of Camdex machines, they still didn't have one for every load/round they loaded for and had other rooms full of manual machines.

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Sounds to me like multiple 1050's are the way to go. Keep in mind that, unlike their consumer machines, the 1050 does not have a lifetime warranty; commercial machines get used too hard for that. But I replaced the case feed plunger roller bolt on one that belongs to a friend and that was out of warranty, but they just sent it and didn't charge for it anyway. Pretty good people to deal with.
 
Jmorris: What is that picture of...your own setup? :)

And yes Nick and Jmorris, I think multiple 1050's is the way to go.

I started this thread curious to see if anyone had any experience with them. I found a new one, already setup with everything to load .223...$31,000.

One guy down here makes quite a bit of ammo, Midsouth Munitions.

The stuff he makes is pretty prolific here in the south and I think he does it all on Dillon presses....but I am not sure about that.

Here is Midsouths new .223 reloading line

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I started this thread curious to see if anyone had any experience with them. I found a new one, already setup with everything to load .223...$31,000.
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You are not done with .223 with just a loader.

First you need a processor.
http://www.camdexloader.com/riflecaseprocessor.aspx

Then a trimmer. They actually have a new trimmer but I didn't find a link to it.
http://www.camdexloader.com/casetrimmer.aspx

Then you feed them into the loader.

If you just dump a bunch of fired brass into one and hit the run button, you'll just have a fast way to fill up a bucket with ammunition you can enjoy hours pulling bullets out of.
 
You are not done with .223 with just a loader.

First you need a processor.
http://www.camdexloader.com/riflecaseprocessor.aspx

Then a trimmer. They actually have a new trimmer but I didn't find a link to it.
http://www.camdexloader.com/casetrimmer.aspx

Then you feed them into the loader.

If you just dump a bunch of fired brass into one and hit the run button, you'll just have a fast way to fill up a bucket with ammunition you can enjoy hours pulling bullets out of.
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based on your previous reputation for mechanical inginuity, and videos of devices you have created, I will take your word for it.

Whichever way I go, I want the machine to work more often than not, and I want it to pay for itself.

I just brought up the camdex becasue it isn't talked about much on here and wanted to know if anyone uses one. But it sounds like the camdex is porportionally like a dillon xl 650...the base price may be $550, but to get one that is mostly automatic and totally progressive you will spend $1k..and then about $150 or more per conversion.

Well, with the Camdex, the base price is $31k...then to get the thing running and the accessories, you will spend $50k total, or more. ....and that assumes the thing never breaks.


....but honestly, I figured Jmorris already had one, he seems to have everything else:D
 
I've been around this block, so keep in mind...
A MOTORIZED/Automated loader puts you into a new class as an ammunition manufacturer!
Doesn't matter if it's for home loading or not. Period.

You need federal licences, (BATFE Paperwork),
Product/manufacturing insurance (costly & required)
As a 'Manufacturer' you are REQUIRED to comply with safety regulations like powder blast shield on the machine, and if you store more than a certain amount of powder/primers you are required to have approved powder magazines.

A 1 pound approved blast shield is close to $5,000

The owner got a visit from BATFE and this is how I know what they want...
The owner sold his Camdex loading machines to get BATFE off his back until he could aquire enough land to satisfy BATFE and build approved storage & manufacturing buildings.
The rounds were actually hand loaded for about a year...

State laws will screw you too, so make sure you check before laying out that much money!

Used machines seem to fly under BATFE radar...
.....


I have experience with Camdex & Dillon.
Keep in mind, Camdex has a 2 week 'School', up to 12 months lead time, and takes support equipment to operate.
While Camdex can crank out 3,000 rounds an hour and still crank out match grade rounds, it takes a TON of adjustment to get right.
Once adjusted, it will work for weeks without issues, just cleaning & lubrication.

Early machines require 3 phase power supply, and an air compressor with clean, dry, regulated air supply.

If you are doing bottle neck rifle cases, you will need a case processing machine, about $34,000, and the loading machine will run $50,000 new.

Keep in mind that caliber changes will take $5,000 to $15,000
....

A Dillon Super 1050 will do bottle neck rifle cases at 700 to 1,200 an hour, but if you are trimming it will take two passes through the machine (or two machines).
Some guys get more with stright walled pistol, but 700 to 900 an hour is all I've been able to get with bottle neck cases and still produce quality ammo.

There are several drives for the 1050, and those manufacturers don't get audited by BATFE like Camdex does, so it's not likely BATFE won't show up at your door. (Neither will any of the other alphabet agencies)

What loading I do is on a Super 1050, and a driven 1050 processes cases.
Taking a que from others, (J.Morris has the easiest, slickest design) a PLC controlled 1050 cranks out plenty of cases and catches hangs before they damage the machine.
(Disclaimer: notice I didn't say I loaded on an automated machine, just process cases, just in case some alphabet agency is monitoring, I still hand pull plenty!)

Honestly, there is more money in processing cases than loading live ammo.
By the time you invest in approved storage & safety, pay the fees, pay the insurance, etc. your profit margin takes a big hit.
Then there are hazmat shipping costs...

Brass takes none of that...
The product liability drops to nothing once someone sizes, punches a primer in, loads, etc.
 
Both are commercial reloader machines. Not exactly practical unless you're doing that.
"...contract I'm finishing up soon..." Got another one lined up? Being a contract employee isn't as great as it sounds.
 
Got another one lined up? Being a contract employee isn't as great as it sounds.
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Huh? I have side consulting business along with my regular job... some of the bigger projects are contracted, smaller ones are hourly.

And if you read my OP, I am looking at doing some of it commercially.
 
LOL, it seems like just a few weeks since you bought a 550 and a 650 and now you wanna go pro?

Maybe the best thing is to get a single Super 1050 and get a feel for that without having to drop enough money to buy 80 acres.

Good luck either way.

;)
 
A MOTORIZED/Automated loader puts you into a new class as an ammunition manufacturer!
Doesn't matter if it's for home loading or not. Period.
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Do you have a link to refer to on this?

Like this but backing up that claim.

https://www.atf.gov/firearms/qa/person-who-reloads-ammunition-required-be-licensed-manufacturer

If you are "In the business of" and you have an automated press you need to have ITAR registration.

https://www.pmddtc.state.gov/compliance/documents/ITARRegReqFirearmsManufacturers.pdf

FWIW the business I was referring to that has many Camdex machines running operates in a city of 1.3 million, so not exactly out in the sticks.
 
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LOL, it seems like just a few weeks since you bought a 550 and a 650 and now you wanna go pro?
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You are correct, I haven't had them long. But long enough to know I can make better than factory ammo on them at about 3/4 the rate Dillon claims that they are capable of.

And shooting is so popular down here I constantly have people asking for ammo. I am already paying for all my components selling cleaned, polished, and swaged range brass.

But the people want ammo! And I may be the guy to deliver.

The other thing is, most business ventures go tits up due to poor business management and financial management decisions rather than the products they sell being poor. In fact about 80% of businesses fail (again I have a PhD in Economics).
Plus, this being an "additional income" or "hobby job" it won't be too big of a deal if it fails.

I'm sure I have a lot to learn, but I'm a quick study. And I have the demand analysis, market analytics, long range financial planning, and growth path covered.

So I figured, why not?
 
JeepHammer wrote:
...so it's not likely BATFE won't show up at your door. (Neither will any of the other alphabet agencies)
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Except that if you start selling some of your product to cover all these costs the lady from IRS may come visit you.
 
T. O'Heir wrote:
Got another one lined up? Being a contract employee isn't as great as it sounds.
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Tell me about it.

When I was a Federal Agent, I just did my 80 to 85 hours a pay period and then went home.

Now, I have to not only do the work but run the company and constantly prospect for the next contract. It's not so bad for me because I'm one of only about a dozen or so recognized experts in my little niche so I would get sought out. It can get a little awkward because I used to work with most of the other experts at one time or another so we have to constantly guard against getting too friendly with one another when our clients are suing each other.
 
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