California synagogue shooting

The response, of course, is what we'd expect. This year's version of the "universal background check" bill is HR8, and politicians are claiming this bill would have stopped the shooting.

The only problem is, the shooter was 19 years old. Last year, Governor Brown signed a law raising the age to own a rifle in California to 21. However the shooter got the gun, it wasn't legally, and background checks obviously weren't a deterrent.

He left behind a manifesto, which I have no interest in reading. I'm sure an eager media will tell us all about it while they're plastering his face on the television screen and doing their best to ensure he enters the same pantheon of publicity as Lanza, Cho, and Harris.

Apparently, he praised and emulated the New Zealand shooter (who praised and emulated Anders Breivik), and he posted about white supremacy on the internet.

Healthy people raised in a functional society don't do things like this. That, not background checks or magazine capacity, is the problem.
 
Poway is a nice place, had friends the lived there a number of years ago, and I always like the pace of life there.
I am sadden by the hate I see growing in our society. Like Tom Servo I have not read the manifesto so I don't know if the killer is far left or far right. To me it seems most the hate I see on the news comes from left. But that is just my observation. I can not wrap my mind around innocent people being killed in a house of worship just because.
 
He left behind a manifesto, which I have no interest in reading. I'm sure an eager media will tell us all about it while they're plastering his face on the television screen and doing their best to ensure he enters the same pantheon of publicity as Lanza, Cho, and Harris.
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I think they do that because they want to encourage more crazy people to do likewise -- it gives them something sensational to write about and it pushes The Agenda. Win, win; there's no downside from their perspective. The publicity after Columbine might have been accidental. Every one after that has been a cold, calculated decision by the executive editors.

(I don't hate the media, I have that low an opinion of most major corporations)
 
it gives them something sensational to write about and it pushes The Agenda
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And we absolutely need to hold them responsible. The copycat effect has been well established. Unlike gun-control advocates, I'm going to provide three studies that were not done by sympathetic think tanks:

The Effects of Media Coverage on Mass Shootings in the United States


Contagion in Mass Killings and School Shootings


Mass Killings in the United States from 2006 to 2013: Social Contagion or Random Clusters?

As for Columbine, the media coverage was not only utterly wrong, but the media refused to acknowledge they'd gotten it wrong in their rush for a "scoop." The Columbine shooters weren't bullied loners who just snapped. They were sociopaths who wanted to beat Timothy McVeigh's body count, and they felt they were entitled to engage in mass murder because they were more "highly evolved" than other people. Both had criminal records, both were in court-ordered anger management therapy, and both were themselves bullies.

But it was easier for the media to push the "loner who got pushed too far" narrative because that's what they knew. Dave Cullen's Columbine, which was written 10 years later, finally laid those myths to rest, but it was too late.

Now it's a moneymaker. In the 24-hour news cycle (which was just coming of age in the Columbine shooting), they have to create content. That means roundtables and panels of people speculating before the facts are in, politicians using it as a convenient soapbox for a readymade agenda, and the spread of fear to the general public.
 
Making sense out of the sensless.

When you "can't" make sense out of the senseless and insane, they you go for things they feel they can control because it fits into their agenda. We no longer commit folks who need help with mental issues and instead let them walk around until they commit crimes. Our LEO's know the threats they face and most of us choose to stay uninformed. ….. ;)

One thing that the media did get right, this time was that they described the firearm as
"an AR-Type" rifle. :cool:

Be Safe !!!
 
kenny53 said:
To me it seems most the hate I see on the news comes from left. But that is just my observation.
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Poway Synagogue: White supremacist.
Christchurch Mosque: White supremacist.
Tree Of Life Synagogue: White supremacist.
Mother Emanuel AME Church: White supremacist.
Oak Creek Sikh Temple: White supremacist.
Islamic Center of Quebec City: White supremacist.

Yes, I can see how these can be mistaken for left wing hate. Incidents like the Easter shooting in Sri Lanka are rightly called out as terrorist attacks. The ones above are all "gun control" problems, or "mental health" issues. Hate is hate, whether it's a Muslim or a Nazi, it's still just hate.
 
Yes, I can see how these can be mistaken for left wing hate.
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Let's steer clear of left/right politics. It's part of the forum rules, and buying into that false dichotomy is what allows us to be manipulated in the first place.

Given the level of polarization, the seeming death of civility, and the ridiculous rhetoric we endure on a daily basis...well, it's hard to imagine some violence not happening. But a Preston Brooks/Charles Sumner slugfest is something altogether different than a person shooting innocents in a place of worship.

Something has gone terribly wrong with us as a society and a people, and unless that changes, things like this will keep happening. Part of that is not buying into the atmosphere of manufactured outrage and hysteria we're being fed.

(This isn't a dig at you, Mark. You just gave me the springboard.)
 
One thing that the media did get right, this time was that they described the firearm as "an AR-Type" rifle.
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Well.....I didn't save the link to it (and they sometimes correct stories without telling you they corrected it) but one of google top picks said the shooter opened fire with an "automatic rifle".
 
kenny53 said:
I am sadden by the hate I see growing in our society. Like Tom Servo I have not read the manifesto so I don't know if the killer is far left or far right.
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More like far out, IMHO. I read part of the manifesto, but about the time I reached what appeared to be the halfway mark I decided that I was wasting too much of my life on it. Basically, he hated Jews. That's really neither a far left nor far right attitude/position. That's a sickness.
 
My apologies for bring left and right into the conversation. Hate is hate and I still have a hard time wrapping my mind around it.
 
Trying to force such actions into right or left is a trap that divides us. Behavior is much more complicated.

The media has picked up in lots of instances that 'assault rifle' is technically incorrect. Thus, MSSA's, military style, appearance, etc. semi auto appearing military are being used most of the time.

The usual gun world statement that it isn't an assault rifle so it is a nice gun, has become irrelevant. It's like clip vs. magazine. Pointing that out - is becoming a yawn.

Mentioning that it was not fully auto, though, is a good correction. However, when you say that is a good thing - you take the wind out of the sails of freeing up NFA weapons.
 
I hope that the ongoing coverage tells us how the shooter obtained the rifle he used. I hope that the coverage continues as he makes his journey through the criminal justice system in to prison where he stays forever. I hope that the coverage and the justice system encompass the folks that allowed the underage shooter to obtain his weapons. Tough gun laws are no protection against hate.
 
The fact of the matter is the shooter was 19. In CA you have to be 21 to buy long guns so the shooter wouldn'tve gotten the guns legally.
 
In CA you have to be 21 to buy long guns
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Just curious, when did that law go into effect?? How old was the shooter when it did?

In my state, its been 18 for a long gun, for a long time, BUT last year, the passed a new law, 21 for "assault weapons" (and defined semi autos as assault weapons), but that part of that law doesn't go into effect until this July.

SO, is it possible the shooter was of legal age to buy the AR when he bought it? And isn't, now?? Not that it matter for anything more than discussion...

One point I would mention, for all those cases where these killers "bought their guns legally", no matter which way this one turns out to be, the cry about "they bought their guns legally" is spouted, as if that were something bad. It's not.

"but, but KILLERS shouldn't be able to buy guns legally!!!"
That's right. The shouldn't, and they can't. Period.
"but, but, this killer did!!!"

No, he didn't. He wasn't a killer when he bought the gun legally. He was a law abiding citizen (otherwise the gun sale couldn't be legal) the same as you, or I, or anyone else, who later TURNED KILLER.

the distinction appears to be too subtle for some people to grasp...
 
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