California has 5000 new felons, what next?

J

Jimmie

Moderator
Well owners of SKS rifles with detachable mags in California had until today to turn them in. Last I heard only 600 out of 5600 rifles were turned in.

What's next? Is the CHP going door to door?
Is Gov Davis calling up the National Guard?

Or has this stupid law just been nulified by lack of compliance?

I don't know about you, but I think we just won a small battle. We will know for sure if no action is taken in the next month.

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The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"
 
IMHO, the law(?) will become one of literally tens of thousands of gun laws that are on the books and will only be enforced when the Feds catch you doing something else wrong. Jimmie, if you're that worried I'll make you an offer for the SKS, since I don't have one, yet... ;)

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ff ...save the 2nd. No fate but what we make.
 
Jimmie,
You're right it will depend on what the state does next. If they come after the guns, they publicly become Nazis. If they don't, they become cowards who won't enforce the law. By the simple act of civil disobedience, the SKS owners of Kali have put the state in a lose/lose situation.
You haven't won a small battle, you've won a major victory!
 
Well, not me, I live in Georgia. I meant we as in all gun owners.

I'm just watching the left coast because stupid laws out there have a way of spreading this way.

But I'm certainly willing to support the gun owners in the PRK. I hope the gun owners stand fast. I believe the government will only take those rights that you let them.

I believe ignoring a law that is unConsitutional is a good form of non violent protest.

And Foxfire, I'm looking to buy more SKSs, not sell. Trying to get one from every communist bloc country.

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The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"

[This message has been edited by Jimmie (edited January 01, 2000).]
 
Jimmie if you want an sks from every communist bloc country start with Kalifornia next as it is a lot closer than those in Europe.

Kali laws are like the plague, watch that it dont spread to a neighborhood near you.
 
Ignore a law that is unconstitutional? Who would do such a thing? Who would promote it?

Well, back when judges had balls to go along with their brains, the Indiana State Supreme Court said in Sumner v. Beeler 50 Ind 341, 342 (1875):

"All persons are presumed to know the law, and if they act under an unconstitutional enactment of the legislature, they do so at their own peril, and must take the consequences."



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Hoka-hey
 
Jimmie--I liked when you referred to " the left coast" in your thread. It sure the hell is!!!!!. It is going to be one hell of an interesting year here in Kali!!!!!

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From my cold dead hands.
 
If they do start to try to collect them now, I wonder how many SKS owners will hand them over bullets first.

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Anarchism: The radical notion that I am the sole authority when it comes to deciding what's best for me.
 
I highly doubt there will be any door-to-door searches. There aren't enough agents in the Department of Justice to conduct the searches. Local law enforcement doesn't want any part of it. Our sheriff has already assured many people he is not going to send his deputies out to look for banned guns.

State officials will be content for slow attrition of banned guns and their owners. If someone screws up and gets caught with one then law enforcement will act, thus proving they are tough on gun crimes.
 
Bruels has it right....slow attrition. Despite what Cali DA's and LEO say, now days they have open warrants.
No matter what the alleged crime is whenever you hear of a search and arrest, its always mentioned guns are found.

Last year in my county there was a financial planner accused of bilking investors. A search warrant was served to get his computer and business records. Of course, assault weapons and child pornography were reported to have been seized as well.
Turns out no illegal weapons, just a few standard handguns and rifles; the kiddie porn was a few issues of Penthouse and Hustler.

He was guilty of investment fraud. But, what business did LE have to seize his guns/nudie mags when they were there to get his 'puter and financial records? And what business does LE have to give that info to the media?

Then there is the case of Jerry Peacock, the school maintenence guy accused of stealing school property...the news media went nuts over the guns LE seized.

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"Quis custodiet ipsos custodes" RKBA!
 
this was posted on the AR list...
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>
Your deadline is March 31, 2000.

California AR owners, please read this carefully. I've said it =
before, at least three times. Yes, SB23 does give you until =
12/31/2000 to register your AR. BUT REGISTRATION IS NOT ENOUGH!

SB23 also contains a clause that says that all guns banned as of =
1/1/2000 [By effect of new Pen. Code =A7 12276.1], must be sold, =
moved out of state, rendered inoperable, or otherwise you must get a =
permit from the DOJ. Here, you read the law...

Sec. 12285(b) Any person who ... (B) lawfully possessed
a firearm subsequently declared to be an assault =
weapon
pursuant to Section 12276.5, or subsequently defined =
as an
assault weapon pursuant to Section 12276.1*, shall, =
within
90 days, render the weapon permanently inoperable, =
sell the
weapon to a licensed gun dealer, obtain a permit from =
the
Department of Justice in the same manner as specified =
in
Article 3 (commencing with Section 12230) of Chapter =
2, or
remove the weapon from this state.

*Section 12276.1 is the NEW "assault weapon" definition that bans =
your rifle because it has a detachable magazine and a pistol grip =
etc. This is NEW, effective 1/1/2000.

Let me say it again, in case you don't get it. There are two things =
an AR owner must do to satisfy SB23:

1. Register the gun within one year of 1/1/2000.

2. Get a permit from the D.O.J. within 90 days of 1/1/2000.

Now, nobody's talking about #2, not the media, not the NRA, not CRPA, =
not Chuck Michel (NRA lawyer), and certainly not Atty. General =
Lockyear's office. You may think I'm nuts, but I do have a degree =
from Harvard Law School, I was a Fellow of the State Assembly and I =
practiced law for 8 years. I also showed this provision to a retired =
Superior Court Judge who agreed that it imposes a requirement to get =
a DOJ permit within 90 days. He also added that it means that anyone =
who registers an "assault weapon" without getting a DOJ permit will =
be incriminating themselves. His words, not mine.

Why don't the gun rights groups talk about this? They are either =
saving it for the lawsuit, or they are ignorant, or they are hoping =
that nobody will notice. If they've read the statute, they also know =
it will be impossible for their members to protect themselves in time =
and don't want to be bearers of very bad news.

I repeat, you could be subject to criminal penalties come April 1, =
2000.

Ignore the 90-day rule at your peril.

Don't count on this 90-day rule to be overlooked. HCI will litigate =
to enforce it just as they litigated to overturn Dan Lungren's SKS =
amnesty. And HCI won.[/quote]


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"walk softly and carry a big stick, one that goes bang in .308 is fine"
 
dZ,

Harvard Law School? I'm again impressed with the folks who come to TFL!

Ahem. (Prepare yourself. It always gets bad after an "ahem". ;) )

Have you thought about running for public office? Law degree? Hmmm. They would think you would fit right in.

WAIT! WAIT! I said, "They" not "I" or "We".

Finagle your way into office the way those Socialists do, then unleash the holy hell terror of a true conservative!

Ha! Slaughter time at the shark tank! It would be grand! :D
 
the quote was not mine...
it's from another regular on the AR 15 list

me in a public office would be dangerous...

i ran for president of PSU's student government one year and managed to loose but also took enough votes from the Skull & bones fraternity shoe in that another guy won the election

The closest i would get to harvard would be MIT Media lab, but i don't have the time for that ivory tower system these daze

here is another fine example of AR15 list
(i'm just a posting, i diddn't scribe it)

<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Anyone in California should think carefully during this year about the
implications if they DO NOT register their arms that are required to be
registered.

You could take them apart so they don't need to be registered, but after the
one year period you could never assemble them in California again, since they
will not allow a registration of an SB23AW after that date. You could then
take them out out of state (driving) after the 12-31-2000 deadline (assuming in
the disassembled state), but I would not want to be pulled over by an LEO while
doing so, especially if I had more than two with me, since the law makes
possession of more than two unregistered arms a felony. I would want a letter
in my possession from the Cal DOJ stating that in their disassembled state the
arms are not required to be registered, since most LEOs will not know the
details of SB23 off the top of their head. Even if you decide just to keep
them at home and never assemble them so that you do not need to register, I
would want a copy of that same DOJ letter stored with EACH of the disassembled
arms. You never know if someone will report you to authorities for whatever
reason. Of course requesting such a letter lets the DOJ know you have the arms
in a disassembled state. Without such a letter either way, your arms would be
confiscated until you straightened it out with authorities, and good luck
getting them back even if you are totally legal. I have a friend who's a
Municipal Court Judge (and a shooter), and even he doesn't have the final
say-so in returning legally possessed arms. The Presiding Judge over his
district won't allow him to return any arm period. How the Presiding Judge
gets away with that I do not know, and I don't like to pressure my friend over
every little detail of how the courts operate here in Cal (behind the scenes).

I own arms because I want to shoot them, not store them until I die. I did
register my required arms under Roberti-Roos, no matter how against the idea I
am. I've been able to use them as normal these ten years, without fear of
discovery or arrest. I keep a copy of the paperwork with each arm, and have an
extra copy to hand to an LEO in case I am stopped going to/from the range (why
aggravte things by having to open a case to get it). The RR arms do not have
to be re-registered under SB23, and any arm required to be registered under RR
can never be registered under SB23.

By not registering your arms that require it you loose your ability to fight
back, personally or as a group to overturn the laws (legally), for fear of
discovery. I really doubt that all arms would be confiscated at once all
across the state. Rather, they'd give you the 90-day turn-in/remove from
state/turn over to LE letter, and at that point you make up you mind over what
to do. Even worse is to flaunt the law by then using your illegal AW at the
range as normal, as people have done with RR. I would never go shooting
with/near someone who has an illegal weapon (of any sort) with them. If you
are prepared to pay the price if caught great, but the price is dear and
bye-bye to the rest of your legal arms, probably for the rest of your life even
if you move out of Cal at some point. Those of you outside Cal who do not face
the reality of the situation here do not understand how to deal with it. Just
like talking about what you'd do if confronted by an armed assailant -- it's
all talk -- only when confronted with the moment-of-truth, will you know what
is the right thing to do. The LEO rank and file agree with us (at least those
I know and their friends in LE), but they also have their job to do even if
they don't agree with the law (management is another story).

Don't forget that the opposition is thinking long-term to decimate arms
ownership in the state. In 50 years the citizens will be left with 19th
Century arms to oppose 21st Century tyranny. You get to keep and use your arms
now, it's your children (literally) who get cheated of their birthright. We
have to fight them long-term too -- the more who choose to go the illegal route
the less opposition they face. That's exactly what they want. They already
have the info on you even if they are not supposed to -- the 4473 makes sure of
that.

We here have something to think about as our Y2K gift.[/quote]

it's a great list... http://www.ar15.com/ar15-l/

dZ
 
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