Caliber speculation

[JSAW]

This is just a weird thought as I'm trying to balance out weapon mods for a video game.

In handgun applications, of about 6" to 10" barrels, factory loaded, what would you consider to be more powerful? A .50 AE or a .45-70 Government?

As I'm attempting to find a good balance for my weapon mods I decided to do a little basic and probably completely irrelevant math. For sake of simplicity I just took examples of a number of cartridges and divided their muzzle energy by the length of the test barrel to come up with a basic ft-lb per barrel inch at the muzzle.

What I found was rather interesting... A .50 AE round has more energy per inch of barrel length than a .45-70 Government. I did quick digging and found some internet users speculating between the .500 S&W Magnum and the .45-70, stating that the .45-70 as a rifle cartridge uses slower burning powder to optimize it's performance from a longer barrel, while a cartridge like the .500 S&W uses quicker burning powder; and in a pistol application a .500 S&W would far surpass a .45-70.

Makes sense to me.

Here's what I come up with

.50AE with 1449 ft-lb of energy from a 6" test barrel has an average of 241.5 ft-lb per inch of barrel length at the muzzle. 300gr JHP

a .45-70G with 3449 ft-lb of energy from a 24" test barrel has an average of 143.7 ft-lb per inch of barrel length at the muzzle. 300gr JHP

From this, the .50AE would just barely edge out a .45-70 in a pistol application (10" or less barrel).

Input?

 

[FrankenMauser]

Most people that shoot rifle cartridge in handguns are also handloaders. As such, they tailor their loads to the platform: i.e. using faster burn rate powders for the handgun-specific .45-70 loads, in order to get better performance and to eliminate the 12 pounds of unburned powder that turns the handgun into a suit-covered nightmare.

Plus... There are multiple different "pressure levels" of .45-70 ammunition. There are black powder loads, low pressure smokeless loads, 'intermediate' smokeless loads, and modern (high pressure) smokeless loads.

In a 10" barrel, with loads tailored to the platform, my money would be on .45-70.

 

[Skans]

A .50 AE round has more energy per inch of barrel length than a .45-70 Government.

Bring back the 440 Corbon!!! A necked-down .50AE to fire a .44 caliber bullet. About 1,900 foot pounds of energy. I bought my Desert Eagle with the intent of adding a 440 Corbon barrel in the future. Unfortunately, I have only come across 3 in the last 10 years or so.

 

[JSAW]

@FrankenMauser:

Hmmm... Perhaps I could set the damage lower on the .45-70 pistols in game, but create a new ammo that could be created with pistol powders instead of rifle that'll boost the weapon's damage output.

@Skans:

I could easily put .440 Cor-bon in game, but I would only have DE's that would use them. Well, I could make any gun use them; but I wanna keep it believable.

 

[Snyper]

What's the game that's got all these features?

 

[44 AMP]

Jsaw, the real world isn't a linear equation.

If you are trying to be realistic, the difference between a .50 cal 300gr bullet and a .45 cal 300 gr bullet moving within a couple hundred feet per second of each other is really only noticeable on paper. And a small difference in trajectory at longer range.

NO animal can tell the difference. And neither could any monster or zombie. When you are looking at what happens in the real world, one round that "barely edges out the other" in paper energy numbers will act exactly the same in a target.

SO, a vastly different value for damage for the .45-70 and the .50AE would, essentially be un-realistic. (on a scale of 10, one would be a 9.5 and the other 9.55, MAYBE 9.6 for example)

 

[Skans]

Hey, JSAW, here's a question for you since you know something about gaming and I know absolutely nothing about it. I've always wondered if the game designer needs to pay a royalty to Desert Eagle, or a similar company for using the name of the gun and/or the look of the gun in the game? Or, do the gun companies just consider this "free advertising" and it's an unwritten (or written) rule to encourage depiction of their product in video games?

 

[Snyper]

I've always wondered if the game designer needs to pay a royalty to Desert Eagle, or a similar company for using the name of the gun and/or the look of the gun in the game?

I would feel certain the lawyers work all that out before the trademarked names are used

 

[45_auto]

A 45-70 revolver with a 7.5" barrel will easily deliver 1444 ft-lb of energy. The 10" will be over 1500 ft-lb. That's using a factory cartridge with a slower burning powder optimized for lever action rifle loads. I don't know of ANY 45-70 factory ammo loaded for pistol length barrels. There's probably about 1,000 ft-lb of energy in the muzzle flash when fired from a pistol!

BFR VELOCITY WITH SELECTED AMMO
(All tested with PACT Chronograph)

.45/70, 7.5-Inch Barrel
300 grain Federal Sierra Classic, average 1472 FPS and muzzle energy 1444 FT/LBS

.45/70, 10-Inch Barrel
300 grain Federal Sierra Classic, average 1507 FPS and muzzle energy 1513 FT/LBS

http://www.magnumresearch.com/faq-BFR.asp

Loads specifically tailored for a shorter barrel will push a 476 grain bullet at 1500 FPS, for a muzzle energy of 2380 ft-lb.

I loaded this bullet up over 43.7 gr of IMR-4198 with standard CCI large rifle primers.

It chronyed out of my 7.5" BRF 45-70:

Lo. 1488 Hi. 1505 Avg. 1497 sd. 8.48

http://forums.handloads.com/archive/forum_posts.asp?TID=20240

If higher energy numbers make you happier, a lighter bullet could be pushed even faster.