Caliber for 1st time deer rifle for youth??

O

orsogato

New member
Help me pick a deer rifle & calibre for a youth that will be able to last his entire lifetime of hunting.

Calibers I have been considering are: .30-06, .280, .270 in long action, .308, 7mm-08, .260 in short action.

Gun is to be used for PA whitetails and possibly an out west trip for mule deer or elk.

Rifle will most likely be either a Rem 700 BDL or a Ruger No.1.

Thanks
 
If you're talking elk, then I'd go .30-06 or .308 over the others listed.

If you're talking about a "starter" gun that will always be good for the PA whitetails, then I'd get a .243 and let him borrow yours on the elk hunts until he's ready for his 2nd rifle.

How old/big a kid are we talking about, by the way? I can't think of too many 10-year-olds that I'd be handing a Rem 700 in .30-06.
 
Define youth.

Be very careful not to "overgun" the child. If he/she's only 10 years old and dimunitive in stature, a 30.06 will make a non-hunter out of them so fast you won't have time to chamber another round. Also don't expect every rifle to fit both a child and an adult. Most full size rifles are hard to handle (shoulder and hold up) for anyone under 15 or 16 years old. It has to be a pleasant experience.

For someone small, say 10-14 years old, probably the best bang for buck going is the NEF Handi-rifle in .243. For only about 250.00 you can have gun and scope. It's small in size and perfect for most kids in that age range. It's a single shot and you have to cock the hammer to fire it. Very safe. The good thing is, it fits kids. They can carry it, shoulder it, and aim with it, without having to strain to do so.

30.06 would be the bare minimum that MOST hunters should use to pursue Elk with. If the child can't handle that, forget the Elk for now.

My Opinion.
 
Heck,

I'd opt for a 30-30 now, and get something more powerful later for elk, etc.. The 30-30 gun itself is lighweight, and the round isn't too intimidating to anyone.

straightShot
 
I gotta pretty much go along with Danny 45. And, define "youth".

I got my first '06 when I was just 16. An Enfield 1917, steel buttplate and all. At 5'-10" or so and around 120 pounds, that thing danged near beat me to death! If it hadn't been for my uncle's guidance in stocking it and putting on a butt pad, I might have never gotten past .22 rimfires.

Too much gun = flinch. YOU can't define "too much", nor can anybody on this Forum. Only that youth. So, as usual, some common sense--and the billfold--must rule.

Art
 
Thanks for replys. The "youth" is actually 5 weeks old! I am planning ahead. Nothing like a little fore planning. The idea is to give my son a rifle down the line that he and I can chase buck w/ for many years together.

I am seriously considering a .260, 7mm-08 or .270 over the .243. I know te .243 is a deer killer, but I want something w/ a little more frontal area than .243 inches.

I think the .270 would probably be the biggest "kicker" of this trio. If we go out west ever, then I think he'll be older, will be able to handle my .30-06' and I'll use my dad's retired 7mm mag.

out of .260, 7mm-08 or .270 what would be the picks.

Thx
 
How can an /06 be good for elk, and not a .308?:rolleyes:

Last year I bought my 14 yr old son his first hunting (big game) rifle, and it was a Remington 700 ADL Synthetic Youth, .308 Win., Cut down stock, 20" barrel. I put williams foolproof peep sights on it.

I remember my 700 BDL /06 as being very loud, and recoil could be a problem If you didnt mount it right. I was a little worried for my son with his rifle having a shorter barrel and lighter weight. No problem! that .308 SY shoots like a pussycat, and the noise level wasnt as bad as any 30/30. Any way last day of the hunt he nailed a 5 pt bull, one shot thru the shoulder. The elk traveled around 50 yards before giving it up. He used a 180 NP handload I cooked up.

Get him the 700 ADLSY, Stoke it with 150 grain or even 125 grain bullets for target, familierization (?), and PA Whitetails. Later when hes ready you can fill it up with 180's and come to Colorado for some Elk. He'll never grow out of that rifle, the bullets will just get heavier. I load 110 gr RNL bullets with a light charge so he can small game with it. If you dont reload, Remington sells the Accellarator bullets in 308, which is a 55 gr 22 in a plastic sabot, and they are just dandy for small gaming and target work.
If you wanna hunt Elk, dont go smaller than 308. Good hunting!:D
 
Youth All-Purpose Rifle

I've killed probably 15 large mulies with my .243 Win. Mod 70 and 3x9x40mm scope. I've killed one elk with it. I bought a Husquvarna .243 off a guy that had been cut down an inch for a youth and my 12 year old son is deadly with it. The elk I killed was at 400 yds. The secret's are the .243 doesn't kick, the 100gr. (recommended) bullet is long and skinny so it has an excellent flat trajectory and flies extremely straight at high velocity, making it a perfect killing round. The low recoil doesn't make the kid flinch so he places his shot like it's supposed to be done. I wouldn't go after a bear with it, but all my one-shot kills have gone through both sides of mulies out to 400 yards. I load boat tail spitzers up to 3000 ft per sec. I'm in my mid-forties and have used my .243 for about 20 years of hunting. Get the kid a .243 and teach him how to shoot with it - Ya only have to kill the animal, not blow 4 pounds of meat out the other side.
 
thanks edward,

yes i reload. And I really like .308 especially for match shooting w/ my m14. But for a hunting rig between 06' and .308 I think i'd opt for 06' and lighten the loads a bit until he grows into em.

I know all of the calibres I mentioned in previous posts will cleanly kill whitetails. What about the .270 on elk. .270 should kick less than 06'. And may be good for just about all big game. Thoughts??



Thx.
 
I've not any hands on with a 270, but have heard quite a few success stories about Elk with a 270. Recoil is married to bullet weight, so the 270 will recoil less than an /06 for sure. But the trigger control still has to be there too!

dwil453, I hear what you say, my son got the bull at around 75 yds with the 180 and it blew a 2" hole thru his shoulder. The Elk, not my son!:D
 
Of the three you listed, I like the 7mm-08. It's a light kicker (less than the other two), but more than enough for whitetail. Got a buddy out here who hunts (and kills) elk with one. He's a fantastic shot with it (he reloads and has worked up a couple of dynamite rounds) and counts on bullet placement over weight. It's a vastly underrated cartridge, IMO. And since you also reload (and are going to teach the young 'un, right?), then ammo availability will never be a problem!
 
Thanks for the opinions. Well I have a lot of time to think about this at any rate. It is always tough choosing calibres for me.
 
You seem to have a bit of time to decide ;) & gotta ask, orsogato. How many rifles do you own?

Likely your son might want a couple different ones too (& even if you don't) & no sense restricting him unnecessarily. He may want to get into varmits to moose. Ideally, at least two rifles.

.243 for goodly mulies on down & a .30-06 for everything else the 48 have to offer (although a .308'll do it just as well).

Of those listed, for only one gun, I like the .308 "more." Bigger bullets for that elk hunt later on & you can always get 125/130 gr bullets for deer. If you reload, the sky's really the limit far as recoil management goes. Lotsa versatility with a .30
 
I, of course, can not tell you what is best for your son or your type of hunting. I can show you what I built for my son.
It is Remington Model 7 in 6.5-.284. Named "Shadow Warrior" It has a 20" McGowen super match grade chrome moly barrel with target crown, The receiver face has been squared and trued and the bolt lugs lapped. It is mounted in a Bell and Carlson Carbalite stock by pillar and glass bedding. The stock has a custom cammo paint job, by me, called pine shadows. It carries a Leupold 2.5 X 8 Vari X III 30mm scope in engraved Millet rings.
The rifle started life as a .243 youth model. I chose the 6.5-.284 after a lot of research and experimentation. This excellent, almost standard, wildcat will let you use the entire range of excellent .26 caliber bullets from 120 grains up to 160 grains. Those projectiles can match the ballistic performance of any of the other popular deer calibers with less recoil. The .284 case has about the same powder capacity as the 30-06/.280/.270 family and therefore almost the same velocity all things being equal.
Currently we are loading this cartridge with one mild load that throws a 120 grain SP flat base at .243 load levels. The recoil level for that load is very mild and my 8 year old son is already shooting it off of a bench rest. The load I use in the rifle is a 129 grain Hornady at 2950 FPS. Recoil levels are extremely mild and I would use it on any game animal that would not be interested in eating me given a reasonable distance.
My boy has yet to hunt with the rifle but I have cleanly killed several white tails with it. I do have one advantage as far as load development. My gunsmith's son has an almost identical rifle that has been used to kill at least four to five deer per year for the last 12 years. Plus boar, black bear, antelope, mule deer and two elk. SWEET
MODEL7.JPG
 
You can kill just about anything out there with a .22 as long as bullet placement is precise, and the critter cooperates and stands stone still while you get a chance to set up, calm down, take careful aim (remember, proper breathing) and squeeeeeeze that trigger until the shot goes off unexpectedly. Assuming of course that your rifle will place it's payload precisely where you aim at.

Yes, a .243 will kill an elk. So will a .270, and a host of other cartridges will too. But in the world of Murphy, I'd rather have something that's gonna be sure to do the job without taking a chance on wounding the animal and it getting away. That said, I still believe that 180 grain bullets from a 30.06 is bare minimum for Elk. .308 is good, but won't have the same energy levels at distance as the .06. I want something that's gonna bust whatever slabside rib gets in the way, penetrates both lungs (at a minimum, hopefully catch the heart too), and bust the off side shoulder at up to 200 yards, so he don't run into the next state.

This is just my opinion as I've not found the perfect conditions, as stated in the first paragraph, in all the years I've been hunting. So please don't take it as a attack on your personal choices. Only you can attest to what has happened in the past, and only you can justify what cartridge you choose.
 
To extend my career as a walking hunter, I got a Rem Titanium in 7mm08. Fully dressed, it's 6-1/4 pounds: Weaver V3, four rounds of ammo, and sling. From the bench, the recoil is no big deal...140-grain bullet at around 2,900 ft/sec. The stock's shape is excellent, as recoil is more of a push than a sharp impact.

I've killed around 20 deer with my .243, using the Sierra 85-grain HPBT. All but one were one-shot kills; 19" Sako "Forester" carbine.

Art
 
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