C4 gone missing...

dZ

New member
Police explosives taken http://www.fresnobee.com/localnews/story/0,1724,124612,00.html
Thieves steal dynamite and gunpowder near Auberry.

By Matthew Kreamer, Pablo Lopez And Kimi Yoshino
The Fresno Bee

(Published December 29, 1999)

With New Year's Eve rapidly approaching, police and sheriff's officials are
working around the clock to find 200 pounds of explosive material stolen
from a police bomb-squad bunker.

"We have a great concern, and we're not going to hide that concern," said
Fresno Police Chief Ed Winchester.

The stolen materiel - about 125 pounds of dynamite and the military
explosive C4, along with 75 pounds of gunpowder - is enough to destroy a
tall building, but only if put in the hands of someone who knows how to use
it.

"I don't want to minimize anything, 100 pounds is a hell of a lot of
explosives," said police Lt. Andy Hall. "If you're an engineer, you can take
down a high-rise with that. But if you put it all in a box and set it next to a
wall, it wouldn't do much other than to destroy some of that wall."

The explosives were stolen between Saturday and Monday from a small
concrete bunker near Auberry. Left behind were blasting caps needed to
detonate the explosives.

The timing of the thefts has heightened officials' fears.

"We're looking at increasing security for New Year's, and we're reassessing
our deployment in light of this," Winchester said. "We are taking a look at
potential targets within our city."

Investigators also are profiling suspects, including those with
anti-government views, Winchester said.

Despite the upcoming New Year's celebration and terrorist threats in other
major cities, Mayor Jim Patterson said Fresno has no plans to cancel any
celebrations. Still, City Council members were polled about whether to
continue with the events.

"There's no evidence presently that this explosives theft was targeted toward
Fresno," Patterson said. "We have not received the kind of direct warning
that was provided in Seattle."

Announcement of the theft came the same day that Seattle canceled a New
Year's celebration, citing a potential for terrorist activity.

Authorities in Fresno made clear that no threats of any kind have been made
here.

"We don't know if someone took these things with an intent to do
something or if they just took them and don't really know what they have,"
Pierce said.

No suspects had been identified Tuesday evening, but a task force including
the Fresno County Sheriff's Department, Fresno Police Department, Clovis
Police Department and the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms was
formed to investigate. The FBI has also offered assistance.

Mark Loizeaux, president of Controlled Demolition Incorporated in
Maryland, urged Fresnans not to overreact.

"It sounds like a juvenile or ill-informed effort to get something to play
with," said Loizeaux, whose company has demolished more than 1,200
buildings, including several Las Vegas casinos, and helped level the
wreckage of the Murrah federal building in Oklahoma City.

"The people don't know what they were doing, or they certainly would have
taken the detonators. It sounds like a childish prank."

Loizeaux echoed Hall's assessment that the potential for damage depends
on the knowledge of the person who has the explosives.

"I could take down multistory structures with that, no problem, but all of
these explosives in the hands of someone who doesn't know what they're
doing is virtually worthless; it's really not going to do much damage," he
said. "The gasoline in your gas tank is technically more dangerous than this
product, because you can set it off with a match."

The bunker's contents weren't thought to be much of a threat by police,
either. The burglary was the first one at the bunker since it was built in the
early 1980s, Winchester said.

The bunker, which is halfway embedded in a hill, is about 8 feet wide, 12
feet long, and 10 feet high and made of reinforced concrete. The door is
heavy steel and has several locks.

The bunker has no alarm or power, but at least three levels of security,
Winchester and Pierce said. They would not elaborate on the security
measures, but the burglars first must pass a locked gate, then travel a quarter
mile on a winding dirt road.

The bunker also is surrounded by another chain-link fence with barbed
wire. Pierce said the burglars forced their way in through the fence, then got
past the locks on the bunker's steel door.

"It took some level of sophistication to get into the bunker," Pierce said,
noting the burglars left little or no physical evidence.

The burglars, however, also left sophisticated explosives in the bunker.
Pierce declined to elaborate.

Only three people have keys, and all have been accounted for.

The breach was discovered Monday afternoon by children playing nearby
who noticed the open gate, Pierce said.

In the early 1980s, Fresno County's public works department stored
explosives in the bunker and used them to carve out roads, Pierce said.

In 1986, the bunker was turned over to the Fresno County Sheriff's
Department. The Fresno Police Department took control of it in 1994 when
the two agencies began to use a single bomb squad under the command of
the Police Department. The squad also serves Fresno, Madera, Mariposa
and Kings counties.

The bomb squad uses the explosives to destroy ammunition, bombs and
explosives confiscated by local law enforcement.

Foothill residents concerned

Auberry residents contacted Tuesday said they didn't know the bomb
bunker existed. They, too, are concerned that the explosives may have fallen
into the wrong hands.

"We have some crazies up here," said Bud Olson, 55, referring to people
who don't agree with the U.S. government.

"What are they going to do with it?" asked Olson, a longtime Auberry
resident who teaches at Foothill Middle School. "Nothing, I hope."

Officials in Tuolumne County said they had a similar explosives theft last
month.

On Nov. 14, suspects stole about 100 pounds of stick dynamite from a
lumber company's storage facility in Standard, said Tuolumne County
Sheriff's Sgt. Allen Dahl.

"We have had dynamite thefts from time to time," Dahl said. The case is
still under investigation, and no suspects have been apprehended.

That doesn't make things easier for local investigators, who have asked for
the return of the explosives, Winchester said.

"I'd like to encourage whoever took the explosive materials to put them out
in a rural area somewhere and call us so we can come and get them."


The Fresno Bee staff writer Michael Baker contributed to this report.
 
Incredible isn't it? I really have to wonder what we're really dealing with there.

I mean, you have the report that there's explosive's missing. Coupled with a statement from an "authority", that he doesn't believe that the thieves know what they have.. So, let's have a newscast, and tell them what they have. DDUUHHHH!!!

OR,

You have a situation where a theft has revealed that a LEA has military grade explosives on hand, and have wound up light on the inventory. Why again, does a PD need C4?

I was under the belief that suspected bombs were fired upon with a highpowered rifle, of course after the retreival by the folks at EOD. I'm not in the LE profession, so am only going on what's allowed in the public sector. Anyone out there in the biz, and willing to enlighten me on those procedures??

Oh, I almost forgot the other OR statement,

OR, it might be a contrived public crisis, to bolster support of more anti-BOR (Bill of Rights) activities...

Best Regards,
Don

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited December 30, 1999).]

[This message has been edited by Donny (edited December 30, 1999).]
 
Some one is going to start the new year off with a bang! Im glad Im 3000 miles away!

Now I wonder why they didn't take the detonators; prehaps they already have better detonators of their own? Hiuumm!

Police think its just kids that dont know what they have and then announce what they have all over the news for 3 days.
I'm sure they are well aware by now of what they have; the question is: What are their intentions?

That c4 will eventually announce its former presence, in a very loud and rude manner, as it changes state from a solid to a gas. Glad Im 3,000 miles away!
 
"The stolen materiel - about 125 pounds of dynamite and the military explosive C4, along with 75 pounds of gunpowder - is enough to destroy a tall building, but only if put in the hands of someone who knows how to use it."

At the risk of seeming stupid, how come that a "bomb squad bunker" contailed so significant an amount of high explosive, and what the hell were they going to do with "75 pounds of gun powder".

Have they given up on "Factory Loads", opting for "home brew" instead?
 
"about 125 pounds of dynamite and the military explosive C4" 125 lbs of dynamite
might seem like a bunch of explosives while it really isn't. 125 lbs of C4 is a sh** load of explosive. I wonder what the ratio really was for this? Exploding a suspect "bomb" with explosives at a remote location in the general rule but how many bombs were these guys expecting? As for the gunpowder and detonators stored in the same bunker with the high explosives I think that the BATF will do US a favor this time.
If anyone hears the rest of this story I for one would sure love to know it.
Regards,
Hank
 
Didn't read the above original text but did hear some(what) of it on radio, etc. this AM. Coupla thoughts (& this from ex/former-LEO/military-JBT = me) ....

C4 is used (along with high speed water jets & other stuff) to destroy suspected bomb/s.

Can't comment on the gunpowder storage.

Can't comment on the theft itself. When I was "in," some of the biggest busts we did was on the bad LEOs. Who else to go where nobody else was supposed to be but an authorized LEO-type = very good cover. Busted quite a theft ring made up of on-duty LEOs. No slam (again) against good LEOs (I was one) but the fact remains.

Not taking the detonators makes me suspect either inept theives or they already had "the goods" to click off the explosives & wanted it to look inept. Details in the crime scene forensics would explain more (of which we won't hear of, BTW). Best way to cover tracks is to "lie enough" & provide enough info to steer an investigation towards another entity.

As an aside, I'm getting a bit tied of the guy on the corner, yelling through the bullhorn that "Everybody remain calm! There's nothing to be concerned about! Everything's under control!"

& BTW, don't pay any attention to the man behind the curtain. :(
 
My compliments on the outstanding security!
Gee Whiz! "They don't have the blasting caps." LOL. How do you know that?
"They don't know what they have"! Is someone out there a retard. If they did not know before they sure as hell know now. Why would they go to such trouble to break in if they did not know what they were after?
It's a classic clusterf***! So I salute the Fresno Police....giggle,giggle,giggle....
Go team go!
 
C4 or dynomite can be set off without caps.

Just because the caps were left behind doesn't mean the BG were amaturers.

Also those explosive could be used to set off a much larger fertilizer or chlorine bomb.

I think this should be real cause for alarm.

Of course c4 can be used for a number of things, like making an anti-tank round or claymores.

I also think it was a inside job.

------------------
The new guy.

"I'm totin, this pistol because my dang SKS won't fit in my holster"
 
I found it odd that they used the words "childish prank", "don't really know what they have", and then, "It took some level of sophistication to get into the bunker." Is this a bit incongruous? Wasn't the door or someplace labelled that explosives were nearby?
 
seen this?
i don't know if it is true or not...
http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a386b96a94720.htm

O.K. here's my story,,, it started about 2:45 p.m. 12-29-99. I was attempting to do my civil duty, to turn in a couple of SKS's I had in my possession to the Fresno
Co. Sheriffs Dept., downtown.

All went well until I started to leave. At approx. 3:30 p.m. I had just left the Sheriff Dept's. front door with my 2 children, ages 5 & 7 with vouchers in hand. 2
plainclothes officers came out the front doors & yelled at me to wait a minute. I returned from the street to see what they wanted. One of them, Rick, told me he
needed to discuss something with me inside & asked me to return, which I did, trailing my babies behind me. We were led into an interrogation room where a third
plainclothes officer was waiting. The room was empty except for 5 chairs & a table. Rick started by questioning me about my views of the sitting Sheriff, Richard
Pierce. I told him the same as I tell everyone everywhere, " I think he's a pompous ASS" and went on to reiterate my claim.

After about 30 minutes of trying to get on my good side, they finally advised me as to the real reason I was asked back. Apparently, they said, some one had called
the "crime stoppers" hot line and made the claim I could be the one who had broken into the Fresno P.D. bomb squad facility, and stolen the explosives.

After another 20 minutes of questioning, I was asked if I would submit to a voluntary explosive walk through of my home. My response was "HELL NO". I
explained I had nothing to hide, however I still refused to surrender my Constitutional right to Privacy. I gave them several peoples phone numbers to call to check
my integrity, including one that was a former sheriff officer who has since become one of my closet friends.

Rick excused himself to go "call some of the numbers" He never returned. Another officer, Mike, kept saying he did not know what was keeping them, but asked
that I please wait. At 5:10 p.m., he finally said "this is not right, you are not under arrest" you are free to go, and walked me out.

As I started up the mountain to my home, I noticed a car tailing me. I shrugged it off, but still kept an eye on it. As I turned off the main 4 lane road to head down
to my home, I noticed I was suddenly being followed by 5 or 6 more cars. I pulled over only to have 7 or 8 sheriff cars surround me with lights flashing, four were
unmarked Mustangs, Camaro's & new Chevy P.U.'s. I exited my truck only to have guns drawn on me and I was told to walk backwards to their cars. My 5 year
old daughter was following me totally traumatized by what was going on. She & I were placed in one of the patrol cars, my 7 year old son, who was sleeping in my
truck, was wakened and carried to me in the patrol car. Both children were scared to death that we were all being arrested. We were driven to my home, where the
door had already been bashed in by flak jacketed ninja hooded Sheriffs officers already inside.

My babies were very concerned that our house had been entered. We sat in the patrol car about 10 more minutes, then told we were to go in the house and sit on
the couch. Over the next 3 1\2 hours, we were kept there.

I was finally given a paper that stated I had been served a search warrant. About 45 minutes before its conclusion, my attorney arrived. He inquired about the
warrant, and was told it had been served. It never had been, specifically, I was told I would not get a warrant until I requested it from the court.

Bill started taking pictures of the individuals that were infringing on my rights and when he started to take picture of the cars, he was stopped and told he would be
arrested for interfering with a criminal investigation. 10 minutes before they left, I was given a search warrant, and told it's "not usually done this way" they had
broke protocol because of the attorney.

What they found..... 1 stolen handgun, the owner,,,, me,,, it was a 44 magnum I had reported stolen, which they had recovered 2 years ago and returned to me.

No other contraband was discovered, dozens of pictures were taken, my house ransacked. No apologies given. My babies traumatized beyond belief. My wife
humiliated & traumatized. For what,,, An anonymous tip...

It's time to wake up Amerika... Is your door next????

The good side,,, I'll be receiving some new doors on my house not to mention entry tile that our wonderful Sheriffs Dept. managed to break,, but what the heck,, it's
only the taxpayers money... Also,, when I finish with them in court,, I may be able to retire.... This will all be on my Radio Rebel show Thursday, the call in number
is 559-222-0900. It will be on live at 5:00 p.m. Pacific time...

May God bless all of you...
Mike Golden
 
http://www.fresnobee.com/localnews/story/0,1724,125483,00.html

Stolen explosives recovered

Sheriff's Department officials expect to make arrests today.

By Matthew Kreamer, The Fresno Bee

(Published January 3, 2000)

Five Fresno County residents were being questioned Sunday evening after authorities recovered explosives stolen from a Fresno police bomb squad bunker.

"Presently, five individuals are being questioned regarding the burglaries and the explosives are being cataloged and inventoried as we speak," Fresno County Sheriff's Lt. Robert Hagler said late Sunday.

A portion of the explosives and one of the suspects were discovered about 4 p.m. Sunday. Questioning led to the discovery of three additional sites of hidden explosives and four more suspects. No arrests had been made late Sunday, but officials anticipated arrests by today.

The suspects being questioned are in their late teens and early 20s and are not thought to be involved with any militia groups, officials said. They all live in the Auberry and Prather area.

More suspects could be questioned as the investigation is continuing, officials said.

"I think the case is broken, but we have not wrapped it up," said Fresno County Sheriff Richard Pierce.

The explosives were discovered in three locations in the Prather/Meadow Lakes area and in one location in Coarsegold, Hagler said.

In one spot, the explosives were hidden in an abandoned shed. In another, they were concealed beneath rocks in an open field.

The burglary was discovered Dec. 27 after children riding bicycles saw that the fence surrounding the Fresno Police Department bomb squad's concrete storage bunker near Auberry had been cut open.

Stolen were 60 sticks of dynamite, 12 pounds of C4 military explosive, 50 pounds of ammonium nitrate, 40 pounds of plastic explosive, 75 pounds of gunpowder as well as a coil of fuse.

It was too soon to tell late Sunday whether all the missing explosives had been accounted for, but investigators determined that the recovered material was the same that was stolen.

"The explosives recovered were definitely taken from the bunker," Hagler said.

Sunday night, the recovered material was being inventoried and dusted for prints at the Fresno County Sheriff's Department.

Hagler credited a multi-agency task force for the recovery. He also credited citizens who left tips for investigators.

"Basically, as soon as the burglary was discovered Monday night, a task force was formed," he said. "Law enforcement is relieved that the task-force concept worked."

The task force included officers from the Fresno and Clovis police departments, Fresno County Sheriff's Department, FBI and federal Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms.

In all, more than 25 investigators from the agencies were involved. Officials are expected to release more information at a news conference today.

A 17-year-old boy who engaged police in a standoff in east-central Fresno Sunday afternoon may have been involved in the burglary or had information about the explosives. Officers at the scene, at Dakota and Cedar avenues, told residents before the standoff ended that the missing explosives were possibly inside an apartment there.

Fresno police Lt. Mike Guthrie, however, said he didn't have any information linking the boy to the missing explosives.

Pierce agreed: "We don't have any information that those two are connected. I don't believe they are connected."
- 30 -

"The suspects being questioned are in their late teens and early 20s and are not thought to be involved with any militia groups, . . ."

Gee, how come they weren't thought to be involved in any Environmental extremist groups?

Bias again or just stupidity -- I don't know what the Bee's stance of gun ownership is.
I'll raise this question with their editors.
(There's a "tell us your thoughts . . ." message box at the bottom which goes on a public forum. Some foul-mouth comments out there on other subjects there.)


------------------
The New World Order has a Third Reich odor.


[This message has been edited by Oatka (edited January 03, 2000).]
 
<quote> not thought to be involved with any militia groups</quote>

Militia = evil
2nd amendment = evil
Rosie O'donnell = good
2nd amendment control = good

dZ

------------------
"walk softly and carry a big stick, one that goes bang in .308 is fine"
 
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