Okay - The city I live in makes it a moderate hassle to buy a handgun. Can one purchase, via the C&R license, handguns without having to go through all the local crap? It'd be worth it... They want two letters from "responsible" citizens, etc., and I'm getting tired of bugging my friends... Actually, this dates back to the Jim Crow days, when any letters brought in by a black citizen were assumed to be from irresonsible folks...
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C&R License question
- Thread starter Bogie
- Start date
Richardson
Inactive
Yes, you can buy some pistols with a C&R license without going through a FFL (actually the C&R license IS a type of FFL). But local ordinances still apply. Is the dealer requesting these letters from "responsible citizens", or is the city requesting it. If you buy one with a C&R, you are still liable to follow all local ordinances, including reference letters & registration (if required). It doesn't matter if the legislation is from Jim Crow days, if it's on the books it can send you to jail. Furthermore, if you get a C&R license, you will be required to keep a permanent record of all subsequent transactions of firearms acquired with the C&R license. You can get inspected as well.
pittspilot
New member
With the C&R FFL, do you lose your right not to be searched without a search warrant. My understanding is that if you have an FFL, the ATF can inspect you at any time and search the address that is on the FFL. Is this true for the C&R FFL. I would like to get one, but not at that expense.
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"Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities...Because it is the quality that guarantees all others"
Winston S. Churchill
"The American Republic is finished when the congress realizes that it can bribe the people with the peoples money"
De Touqueville
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"Courage is rightly esteemed the first of human qualities...Because it is the quality that guarantees all others"
Winston S. Churchill
"The American Republic is finished when the congress realizes that it can bribe the people with the peoples money"
De Touqueville
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by pittspilot:
With the C&R FFL, do you lose your right not to be searched without a search warrant. My understanding is that if you have an FFL, the ATF can inspect you at any time and search the address that is on the FFL. Is this true for the C&R FFL. I would like to get one, but not at that expense.
[/quote]
From the GCA '68, Subsection 923 (g) (C)&(D)
"(C) The Secretary may inspect the inventory and records of a licensed
collector without such reasonable cause or warrant -
(i) for ensuring compliance with the record keeping requirements of this
chapter not more than once during any twelve-month period; or
(ii) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining
the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide
criminal investigation.
(D) At the election of a licensed collector, the annual inspection of
records and inventory permitted under this paragraph shall be performed at the office
of the Secretary designated for such inspections which is located in closest
proximity to the premises where the inventory and records of such licensed collector
are maintained. The inspection and examination authorized by this paragraph shall
not be construed as authorizing the Secretary to seize any records or other documents
other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation
of law. If the Secretary seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided
the licensee within a reasonable time. The Secretary may make available to any
Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency any information which he may obtain
by reason of this chapter with respect to the identification of persons prohibited
from purchasing or receiving firearms or ammunition who have purchased or received
firearms or ammunition, together with a description of such firearms or ammunition,
and he may provide information to the extent such information may be contained in the
records required to be maintained by this chapter, when so requested by any Federal,
State, or local law enforcement agency."
In the almost 3 years I've been a member of the C&R mailing list, I cannot remember any other member ever being subjected to an inspection. I believe there are about 700 members of that list.
[This message has been edited by mbott (edited September 07, 2000).]
With the C&R FFL, do you lose your right not to be searched without a search warrant. My understanding is that if you have an FFL, the ATF can inspect you at any time and search the address that is on the FFL. Is this true for the C&R FFL. I would like to get one, but not at that expense.
[/quote]
From the GCA '68, Subsection 923 (g) (C)&(D)
"(C) The Secretary may inspect the inventory and records of a licensed
collector without such reasonable cause or warrant -
(i) for ensuring compliance with the record keeping requirements of this
chapter not more than once during any twelve-month period; or
(ii) when such inspection or examination may be required for determining
the disposition of one or more particular firearms in the course of a bona fide
criminal investigation.
(D) At the election of a licensed collector, the annual inspection of
records and inventory permitted under this paragraph shall be performed at the office
of the Secretary designated for such inspections which is located in closest
proximity to the premises where the inventory and records of such licensed collector
are maintained. The inspection and examination authorized by this paragraph shall
not be construed as authorizing the Secretary to seize any records or other documents
other than those records or documents constituting material evidence of a violation
of law. If the Secretary seizes such records or documents, copies shall be provided
the licensee within a reasonable time. The Secretary may make available to any
Federal, State, or local law enforcement agency any information which he may obtain
by reason of this chapter with respect to the identification of persons prohibited
from purchasing or receiving firearms or ammunition who have purchased or received
firearms or ammunition, together with a description of such firearms or ammunition,
and he may provide information to the extent such information may be contained in the
records required to be maintained by this chapter, when so requested by any Federal,
State, or local law enforcement agency."
In the almost 3 years I've been a member of the C&R mailing list, I cannot remember any other member ever being subjected to an inspection. I believe there are about 700 members of that list.
[This message has been edited by mbott (edited September 07, 2000).]
Hi, Bogie,
As noted, the C&R license is only to allow you to ship and receive curios and relics across state lines; it does not exempt you from any registration or licensing required by local or state law.
But I think I would try to build support for a repeal of that law, citing the Brady Act and the FBI check. Sometimes we can make those laws work for us by showing that local laws are discriminatory, obsolete, redundant, unnecessary, and unfair. You will meet resistance from the local antis, but you simply accuse them of racism, attempting to perpetuate Jim Crow laws, depriving minority people of their rights, discrimination, etc. And of course, you ask who is more "responsible" to vouch for you - a basically unknown person or the vaunted FBI.
Jim
As noted, the C&R license is only to allow you to ship and receive curios and relics across state lines; it does not exempt you from any registration or licensing required by local or state law.
But I think I would try to build support for a repeal of that law, citing the Brady Act and the FBI check. Sometimes we can make those laws work for us by showing that local laws are discriminatory, obsolete, redundant, unnecessary, and unfair. You will meet resistance from the local antis, but you simply accuse them of racism, attempting to perpetuate Jim Crow laws, depriving minority people of their rights, discrimination, etc. And of course, you ask who is more "responsible" to vouch for you - a basically unknown person or the vaunted FBI.
Jim