C&R & delivery address

T

Tennessee Budd

Inactive
Forgive my ignorance, but I'm a newbie Cruffler; just received my first C&R purchase today, a '53 Romanian TTC. I had a few problems connecting with the Big Brown Truck of Joy. I've been unable to find an answer to my question from BATFEIEIO, gunblogs, & searches here, but I'm sure someone will be able to tell me:
Must arms purchased with a C&R be delivered only to the address on the FFL, or may I have them delivered to, for example, my workplace, where UPS & FedEx deliver daily anyhow? I caught the driver on the 3rd & last delivery attempt only by taking off from work 2 hours early. It would facilitate things if I could just have the packages delivered to work; my coworkers & boss know my interests & are cool with it.
Thanks in advance for the benefit of y'all's knowledge. I've lurked & read for some time; now that I've begun buying, I suspect it'll go on & on. You folks know how that goes. TB
 
Many thanks, TK

I thought that was the case, but wasn't certain. There's a UPS depot within 15 miles of work; much better than this hassle. Thanks again for the help.
 
Tennessee Budd ....Must arms purchased with a C&R be delivered only to the address on the FFL......?
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No.

Tidewater_Kid The ship to address has to be the same as the one on your license. You can however have them hold it at the depot for pickup.
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Absolutely not true.
There is no Federal law or ATF requirement that firearms must only be delivered to the licensed premises. That said, few companies will ship a firearm to an address not shown on the FFL.

I'm an 01FFL and do not accept packages at my premises, using an account at the local UPS Store to receive my shipments. The license has two address: the premises and a "mailing" address...........my UPS Store is my mailing address.

Just contact the ATF FFLC and have them change your mailing address to your office.

Here's the word straight from ATF:https://www.atf.gov/sites/default/files/assets/pdf-files/0913-ffl-newsletter-volume-2.pdf
See page 6
 
Tom,

I stopped renewing my license several years ago, but I was told by several FFLs at the time that they would only ship to the address that was on the license. That is my real world experience, but as you pointed out perhaps not the letter of the law. It also states in the section you pointed out that a alternate shipping address is subject to state laws. YMMV...

TK
 
I seriously doubt if anyone would ship to an address different than what is on the license, but you never know. I would never do it unless I absolutely know the person and why the address is different.
Some sellers will want another ID with the C&R before they ship.
 
There may not be a law or a formal regulation, but BATFE once made it clear to distributors and wholesalers that they should ship only to the address on the FFL and further that they should check that address against the BATFE web site for an 01 FFL (03 FFLs are not listed on the web site).

The reason was that unauthorized persons were getting hold of copies of FFLs and either altering the address or instructing the shipper to send the guns to another address, usually a dummy drop point, like an empty storefront.

IMHO, asking the seller to ship the gun to a different address than that on the license might raise flags and result in a visit from BATFE.

Jim
 
Tidewater_Kid Tom,

I stopped renewing my license several years ago, but I was told by several FFLs at the time that they would only ship to the address that was on the license. That is my real world experience, but as you pointed out perhaps not the letter of the law. It also states in the section you pointed out that a alternate shipping address is subject to state laws. YMMV...
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Never underestimate the ability of a dealer to invent his own laws.;)
 
James K There may not be a law or a formal regulation, but BATFE once made it clear to distributors and wholesalers that they should ship only to the address on the FFL and further that they should check that address against the BATFE web site for an 01 FFL (03 FFLs are not listed on the web site).
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While an ignorant IOI may have said "ship only to the address on the FFL" , ATF is clear that no such requirement has ever existed. I've had conversations with two ATF IOI (in states other than Texas) who were completely ignorant of ATF official position.

The reason was that unauthorized persons were getting hold of copies of FFLs and either altering the address or instructing the shipper to send the guns to another address, usually a dummy drop point, like an empty storefront.
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Which can happen if the shipper does not verify the shipping address with the receiving dealer. Any dealer who falls for a faked FFL has only himself to blame.

IMHO, asking the seller to ship the gun to a different address than that on the license might raise flags and result in a visit from BATFE.
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Really? Why? ATF says it's completely legal and has never been a requirement.
 
So I wonder what happens if "Distributor Tom" ships, say, 500 AR-15's to a fake address and they turn up in a terrorist operation. Does BATFE just shrug and say, "stuff happens"? Maybe. Or not.

Jim
 
It would appear that opinions differ. Shocking, that opinions would vary on any subject concerning firearms!
Regardless, I appreciate everyone's input. I'm going to stick with shipping to my home address. As has been pointed out, even if there is no ATF requirement to do so, sellers would be wise to for CYA reasons. With my next purchase, I may specify a UPS store just as a test; if delivery is refused, I'll know. If there's no ATF rule against it, it shouldn't adversely affect my license (although, under this administration, who really knows?)
Thanks again, everybody. I think I'm going to like it here.
 
Shipping to a UPS store where they verify your ID probably goes over better with most distributors than a random address. The UPS guy has never checked my ID when dropping at my residence. I do not receive shipments at my current address either. UPS holds ALL shipments to me and I pick them up in person at the service center which is close to my house.
If you have a separate shipping address isn't there a license addendum listing that address? I think the ruling ATFE clarification is the item can not be dropped at an unlisted address. YOu can add addresses for storage also.
 
Found this on another forum.

This is from ATF:

"ATF has received numerous inquiries asking if a Federal firearms licensee (FFL) may ship firearms to an address that is different from what is listed on the recipient’s Federal firearms license.

Neither the Gun Control Act (GCA) nor its implement¬ing regulations contain specific provisions requiring that an FFL have firearms shipped to his/her licensed business premises when receiving firearms. Therefore, an FFL may lawfully receive firearms at his/her mailing address, storage location, or other address where the licensee intends to ensure safe and secure receipt of the firearms.

ATF Industry Circular 74-13 outlines “Guidelines for Verifying Identity and Licensed Status of Transferee.” It states, in part that “when the shipment is to be made to an address other than the transferee’s premises as listed on his or her license or on his or her certified list, it is suggested that the transferor verify the address as being that of the transferee.” ATF encourages FFLs to verify to the best of their ability that the shipping address is a valid location where the licensee is prepared to receive and subsequently possess the firearms. This may require that you contact the FFL listed on the license to verify that the address listed is accurate. In addition, if an FFL requires frequent delivery of firearms to an address other than his/her licensed business premises, ATF recommends that the shipping address be placed on file with the Federal Firearms Licensing Center (FFLC) as an additional mailing address. It should be noted that any FFL receiving firearms at locations other than his/her licensed premises must still maintain accurate records of acquisition and disposition of firearms.

Please be advised that there may be State laws that prohibit the receipt of firearms at a different address than what is listed on the license."

The reality is that, although there is no law or reg prohibiting the shipment of a gun to an address other than that which is on the license, verification is 'recommended' and the responsibility for that most certainly will fall on the shipper if something untoward were to happen. Since FFL03's are not on any available database for verification, to expect a dealer to ship to a different address than what's on the FFL03 is unrealistic.

So, in regards to shipping a C & R gun to an address other than that on he FFL03 license;

Illegal? No
Unrealistic? Yes
 
James K So I wonder what happens if "Distributor Tom" ships, say, 500 AR-15's to a fake address and they turn up in a terrorist operation. Does BATFE just shrug and say, "stuff happens"? Maybe. Or not.
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Any licensed dealer or distributor that ships to a fake address deserves everything they get from ATF. There is no excuse for that. ATF makes it very easy to check the validity of the licensees premises and mailing address on the FFL EzCheck.
 
Tennessee Budd It would appear that opinions differ. Shocking, that opinions would vary on any subject concerning firearms!
Regardless, I appreciate everyone's input. I'm going to stick with shipping to my home address. As has been pointed out, even if there is no ATF requirement to do so, sellers would be wise to for CYA reasons. With my next purchase, I may specify a UPS store just as a test; if delivery is refused, I'll know. If there's no ATF rule against it, it shouldn't adversely affect my license (although, under this administration, who really knows?)
Thanks again, everybody. I think I'm going to like it here.
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Why not add an alternate address to your FFL? It's easy and free.
 
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