Buying used guns private sale, prices & experiences?

R

riffraff

New member
I live in a state with laws basically, if you know someone personally or they have an LTC you can sell them a handgun no FFL; rifles are basically the person should not be suspected to you as anything except an upstanding citizen and you can make a sale (resident to resident of course), a bit of a greyer area. Anytime you can of course opt to use an FFL.

For about a year and a half I've been periodically trying to find a decent deal on armslist, private sale very good condition used at a discount below what I gotta pay for something new - my experiences are mostly failure. Seems like this is what I find.

#1 prices typically are the same or more than I'd pay locally for something brand new but seller is steadfast it's a great deal - why is this?

#2 seller never responds to basic query of "hey I'm interested here's my #", never figure out if it's sold or they just don't check email.

#3 very little discount over brand new, ie like 15%, get a hold of seller to maybe work out a deal and they insist on going above & beyond the law to an FFL when they already live 1 hour away - not worth all that over say $150.

#4 the extremely rare instance someone has a price that seems fair, sends you their home address, you make a deal and get your gun, but that happens once for every 10 times you try.

Why is it normally so difficult? Seems like a lot of people constantly trade guns, why is this so hard?
 
#1 is because they overpaid and they want you to reassure their psyche they didn’t get ripped off when they paid a rediculous price initially, by covering their losses.
“I paid x ($100 over retail hoping it would go up but it didn’t ) and I haven’t shot it but a few times so it’s like new, so it’s worth retail.”
 
Some are trying to cash in on the FTF sale as your getting a gun that's not registered to you. Which, for the average lawful gun owner, is essentially a zero value. Some are merely trying to make a profit.
Some are trying to recoup their money, as TXAZ mentioned, some are trying to get rid
of a gun with a problem or defect. Once they have your cash, like the guy who horned me on the Mini, if it shoots like crap, there's not much you can do, now is there?

If you don't know the person, I would meet them at a range, and test shoot the gun.
If they don't want to do that, they are basically stating the gun is either inaccurate,
or broken. Their refusal just saved you time and money on a bad gun.

IME, yes you can find a gun below retail that's actually worth it, in a blue moon, if you spend more time looking than it's worth, or happen by a great deal by accident. But usually, you're going to pay very close to retail for
your gun. There's very little markup, and very little profit margin.

I've made it a habit to buy new, unless I am very familiar with the design,
and seeing a considerable markdown. For the few extra bucks, it's worth it.
Obviously, if it's no longer being manufactured, you have to buy used.
Figure out whatever system fits you best, to protect yourself from getting screwed.
 
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Buying used guns private sale, prices & experiences?

#1 has always been a joke to me. You see folks trying to sell a Taurus 85 revolver for 350 or 400 when my FFL had them on sale for 225 recently.

Recently I needed to move an XD mod 2 to make way for a new gun. Dealer told me to sell it outright since they could not give me squat as their prices on plastic guns has plummeted. I think he offered me 200 for it. Going price on AL was about 400+ .... I sold it for 325 in a couple of days. It’s still fun to browse ... bought a CZ Scorpion when it popped up about a year ago at a decent price.... gotta be diligent about looking as good deals will go fast.
 
A lot of private sales are conducted by
people who buy used guns and then resell for
profit on a regular basis, a very regular
basis.

You'll see that some of these sellers have
a record of hundreds of guns yet probably
aren't FFL holders.

As far as I know this is a "loophole" in the
gun background check law because the
"for profit" concept enters the equation.

That's why a movement exists to get all
sales done with the federal form through
FFLs.
 
Whoops! I guess I just gave up some big bucks. I had bought a Ruger Single Six Hunter at a good price. Didn’t like for various reasons. Put it on gunbroker for $100 less than I paid. After about two days I got an email from a local who picked it up for the full asking price the same afternoon, cash sale. Everybody was happy. I got to try the gun for as long as I wanted for $100. He got a great deal. No tax. No shipping. No gun show entry fee. No gunnroker final fee. No credit card up-charge. No FFL transfer fee. I know we both felt lucky. It does happen.
 
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You'll see that some of these sellers have a record of hundreds of guns yet probably aren't FFL holders.

As far as I know this is a "loophole" in the gun background check law because the "for profit" concept enters the equation.
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There is no requirement at the federal level for background checks for intrastate firearms transactions. That is as it should be, IMO.

As such, there is no loophole. It is simply that the law doesn't extend to private intrastate firearms transfers and was never intended to.

Any person who is buying and selling "hundreds of guns" without an FFL is likely to eventually get a visit from the feds inquiring why they are in the business of buying and selling guns without being licensed to do so. When it happens, they will need to provide some very good answers or things will get very ugly and they won't EVER be buying/selling or even owning any firearms legally again.
 
Danoobie said:
If you don't know the person, I would meet them at a range, and test shoot the gun.
If they don't want to do that, they are basically stating the gun is either inaccurate,
or broken. Their refusal just saved you time and money on a bad gun.
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I'm sorry, but I have to take exception to this egregious generalization.

I don't believe in selling firearms, but it has happened. I live 25 miles/45+ minutes from the range where I usually shoot. The range closest to me is at least half an hour away. When I offer anything for sale, I describe it as honestly and completely as I can. That's it -- if you want it, buy it. I don't have the time or energy to spend a couple of hours trekking off to the range so some prospective buyer can shoot my gun (which was clean and ready for sale), decide he wants it, and then offer me 30 percent less than my clearly stated asking price. I've been through that with used notebook computers. I jumped through hoops for a prospective buyer who said he was VERY interested in a Jeep I was selling with a snowplow. I took it to his mechanic (on my time) to be checked out. Mechanic said it needed a new gas tank, for $250. It needed a 6-inch length of rubber gas line. Then he had me take it to the dealer for that brand of plow (an hour away) to be "checked out." They looked at it, said "Yep, that's our plow and it works." After all that, he offered me $250 less than what I was asking. Two days later I sold it for my asking price to a different buyer, who came to my house, took a 5-minute test drive, and handed me cash.

Just because someone looks at a gun and it works doesn't mean that person will buy it for a fair price. More often then not, that's just the opening for the games to begin. They figure they've got you, because you've already traveled that far and you don't want to go through that again (true!), so they low-ball you with an insulting offer and then show you a wad of cash to make you more inclined to take their offer and go home.

If you choose to assume that every seller who declines to jump through hoops must be concealing a defect, that's your choice. But it may not be a valid assumption. You don't get to test fire guns at most gun stores, why should it have to be different when buying from a private seller?
 
I've gotten a few good deals recently, one through AL and two at a gunshow. Upon closer inspection, one of them was a great deal. I am seeing the opposite on AL at the moment though. New S&W revolvers for retail +20%, and old S&W revolvers for new retail +30%. To some folks "old"="rare"="valuable" which is rarely true. More often, guns are rare because they were undesirable in the first place and the manufacturer wisely discontinued them.

It seems like the Python craze has spread to S&W, and most everything else. I recently tried to trade a LNIB Sig 1911 for a LNIB S&W 586 L-comp. Buds has both guns and mine is $80 higher. The seller of the revolver wanted my gun and $400 cash to boot because his was "rare" and it came with a bunch of crap I didn't want. He was asking $1200 and started the first email with, "I've got $1400 in this gun..." so I knew it wasn't going to happen.

I've got to agree with AB about buyers. I'm not going to take 20 more pictures for you or jump through any hoops. I also try to be very honest about defects and won't ship, even to an FFL, for that reason. I want the buyer to decline if they don't like it once they've handled it and checked it out.
 
Well I guess that's the experience of others..

I wouldn't say we normally pay list price where I live though - I'd say 10% under list would be a starting point for the most you will ever pay, and more likely 15% under list is what you find if you look with much better deals to be had on occasion.

It may be a state law where I live (one of the very few pertaining to guns) that you can only sell to residents and I'd say gun owners follow it very strictly. We border a police state so much of what we have is completely illegal next door, responsible gun owners familiar with the issues very strongly do not want to make private sales a topic by helping out-of-staters get "illegal" guns.

And I agree it's not a loophole it's more "common sense" :) to allow private sales and lending/borrowing of guns. To disallow that would make every gun like a highly restricted NFA item. As I explained it's nearly impossible to buy a gun private sale anyway :)..

Would also be very easy for police to catch prohibited persons if they really thought there were many buying these private sale guns off AL and such - buy 10 of the same guns new (could be cheap guns, which they'd get cheap anyway), make a post at some standard price you'd find in a store, see who shows up. If they are good to go, they get their gun, if they are breaking the law, make an arrest, police would even recoup their investment that way.
 
It may be a state law where I live (one of the very few pertaining to guns) that you can only sell to residents and I'd say gun owners follow it very strictly. We border a police state so much of what we have is completely illegal next door, responsible gun owners familiar with the issues very strongly do not want to make private sales a topic by helping out-of-staters get "illegal" guns.
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Federal law states that private sales of firearms may only take place between residents of the same state. Per federal law, sales across state lines must involve an FFL.
 
I live in the corner of my state, bordering two others. It's not uncommon for a resident of one of those states to want to buy a gun I have on AL. I always cite the law and offer to meet them at their FFL.

You never know if they are really buyers or are Feds doing a study, running a sting, or are with an anti group trying to prove a point. Law-abiding gun owners need to make sure our behavior is beyond reproach or we become our own worst enemy.

I should add that I am not in the business of selling without a license. I have a few guns I am trying to sell but I'm going to be lucky if I break even. The purpose is not to profit but to get rid of guns I don't like and to be able to afford something else that I might like better.
 
My experience is that used gun sellers somehow have come to the conclusion them buying the gun makes it worth more than a new gun. All they did is take away the real value of a warranty. I stopped looking to buy used guns. I can buy cheaper from my LGS. He gives me a better price, warranty, after the sell help and the security of making the buy in a safe place. I have traded used for used at much better prices than with individuals.
 
If you don't know the person, I would meet them at a range, and test shoot the gun.
If they don't want to do that, they are basically stating the gun is either inaccurate,
or broken.
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Or they detail cleaned the gun to show it and don't want a tire kicker to make them clean again.

THe worst for me is on selling. Someone shows up, firearm is as described, and they want to knock 10-15% off the price at the last minute.

I have found plenty of deals under retail at any LGS. Not many under the lowest price I can find on the internet.
 
I don't understand all of this mud slinging against both gun sellers and gun buyers. We're talking about us. As is natural, we sell for as much as we can get and buy for as little as we can. We are to blame for the high prices because we willingly pay them. We are to blame as buyers because we are trying to buy guns cheaper than they are worth.

"We have met the enemy and it is us".
 
All of my in state (person-to-person) transactions have been great. When selling I make out a bill of sale and get the buyer to sign, after I've had a look at their driver's license.

Once, I found the original papers to a CZ 100 I had sold so I looked up the buyer's address and ran those over to her. Her husband was happy to see me.
 
#4 the extremely rare instance someone has a price that seems fair, sends you their home address, you make a deal and get your gun, but that happens once for every 10 times you try.
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In a private sale, I don't really care what seller is asking for the gun, if it's a gun a truly want. I will know what is "fair" and will make an offer accordingly. My offers are good enough that if the seller knows the market, he will accept my offer - if he really wants to sell the gun. If not, then I nicely say "thank you" and just walk away.

For example, there is a particular bullpup I would like to buy. I have been looking for some time. I saw one sell for $1,700 recently, but was too busy to buy it. I don't care if seller is asking $2,200 for it my offer will be $1,700.
 
and ran those over to her. Her husband was happy to see me.
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So she bought as a gift?

I'm an hour from a state border, but I have several people insist it is legal for them to purchase guns from the bordering states. Even after posting the law they seem not to get it.
 
I'm not much of a believer in gun control at all but with that said - private sale within the same state/residency was a very well thought out regulation that works wonderfully (or maybe it wasn't well thought out and they got lucky, but works as such just the same)..

It keeps guns with "evil features" from ever legally being brought across state lines, licensed gun dealers are bound by state laws, private sellers are bound by federal law such that they can only sell a firearm to a resident. Evil feature guns stay within state lines unless somebody breaks a serious law.

Keeps states from being able to credibly claim the federal government must end private sales - if a state is unhappy with private sales they can outlaw them in their own border - their residents cannot legally cross the border and buy private sale from another state similarly without both buyer & seller breaking a serious law..

Now I'm not saying that state officials can't or won't try to see federal laws passed, they obviously do, but the system is setup already such that there is not much of a leg to stand on regarding making private sales illegal. They should only have an impact within the same state as where it's allowed, unless both buyer & seller are breaking a serious law to begin with.
 
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