Buying guns out of state

W

wftree

New member
I have always bought guns locally and now need to expand my reach to get the ones I want, and can afford,.

What are the rules for buying out of state for both long guns and hand guns.

I like FTF deals, shipping is OK but I hate to involve the FFL.

Can I drive across state lines to buy long guns? I am pretty sure that I can not do it with a handgun.

Thanks in advance
wftree
 
Crossing the state lone for long guns is ok as long as the gun is legal in your State of residence.
Hand guns is a no no. You have to go through an FFL for those.

AFS
 
Crossing the state lone for long guns is ok as long as the gun is legal in your State of residence.
Hand guns is a no no. You have to go through an FFL for those.
Click to expand...

Wrong.

You have to go through an FFL for ANY gun purchased from an individual from another state. Long guns can be bought directly from an FFL in another state, but not an individual in another state. Handguns can only be bought through an FFL in your state.
 
please clarify

shaggy please give some reference to your opinion on this. The gun show fiasco where I buy from an individual comes to mind.
 
Not my opinion; its fact.

18 USC 922(a)(1)(A);
It shall be unlawful for any person except a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, or licensed dealer, to engage in the business of importing, manufacturing, or dealing in firearms, or in the course of such business to ship, transport, or receive any firearm in interstate or foreign commerce

18 USC(a)(3);
(3) for any person, other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to transport into or receive in the State where he resides (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, the State where it maintains a place of business) any firearm purchased or otherwise obtained by such person outside that State, except that this paragraph (A) shall not preclude any person who lawfully acquires a firearm by bequest or intestate succession in a State other than his State of residence from transporting the firearm into or receiving it in that State, if it is lawful for such person to purchase or possess such firearm in that State, (B) shall not apply to the transportation or receipt of a firearm obtained in conformity with subsection (b)(3) of this section, and (C) shall not apply to the transportation of any firearm acquired in any State prior to the effective date of this chapter

18 USC(a)(5);
(5) for any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) to transfer, sell, trade, give, transport, or deliver any firearm to any person (other than a licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector) who the transferor knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the transferor resides;

18 USC 922(b)(3);
It shall be unlawful for any licensed importer, licensed manufacturer, licensed dealer, or licensed collector to sell or deliver (3) any firearm to any person who the licensee knows or has reasonable cause to believe does not reside in (or if the person is a corporation or other business entity, does not maintain a place of business in) the State in which the licensee’s place of business is located, except that this paragraph (A) shall not apply to the sale or delivery of any rifle or shotgun to a resident of a State other than a State in which the licensee’s place of business is located if the transferee meets in person with the transferor to accomplish the transfer, and the sale, delivery, and receipt fully comply with the legal conditions of sale in both such States (and any licensed manufacturer, importer or dealer shall be presumed, for purposes of this subparagraph, in the absence of evidence to the contrary, to have had actual knowledge of the State laws and published ordinances of both States)​
 
let me restate my question

shaggy I'm not pulling your chain over this I really thought I had it figured out.

Here is my scenario: a private individual from one state goes to another state to purchase a handgun from another private individual.

Everything I read in your reference seems to apply to transactions involving a FFL held by the seller. I'm probably wrong in how I'm reading this information. This is really critical information to know.

I'm planning on traveling to a couple of other states this summer. I have been communicating with a couple of individuals who have a few items they wish to sell. They live in locations where they own what are considered legal handguns and could sell these with no problems to other residents of thier state. Both their FFL dealers and the one I use here believe the transaction would be legal (my buying from a private individual) as long as I pick up the unit and not ship the unit between states. Until know I thought this was going to be a no problem deal. I won't buy with holding items in my hands. They won't sell without payment up front. And neither I or they want to pay some FFL dealers for the sale and again if there is a return to seller.
 
toybox99615,

The short answer is that you may not legally do what you describe in your scenario.

The following are from the FAQs on the AFT website (http://www.atf.treas.gov/firearms/faq/faq2.htm#b3 ):

(B2) From whom may an unlicensed person acquire a firearm under the GCA? [Back]

A person may only acquire a firearm within the person’s own State, except that he or she may purchase or otherwise acquire a rifle or shotgun, in person, at a licensee's premises in any State, provided the sale complies with State laws applicable in the State of sale and the State where the purchaser resides. A person may borrow or rent a firearm in any State for temporary use for lawful sporting purposes.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and (5), 922(b)(3), 27 CFR 478.29 and 478.30]

(B3) May an unlicensed person obtain a firearm from an out-of-State source if the person arranges to obtain the firearm through a licensed dealer in the purchaser’s own State? [Back]

A person not licensed under the GCA and not prohibited from acquiring firearms may purchase a firearm from an out-of-State source and obtain the firearm if an arrangement is made with a licensed dealer in the purchaser's State of residence for the purchaser to obtain the firearm from the dealer.

[18 U.S.C. 922(a)(3) and 922(b)(3)]

Note also that 18 U. S. C. (a)(5) makes it unlawful for a resident of a state to transfer or deliver a gun to someone he should know is not also a resident of that state.

When in doubt, check with the ATF. The rules may not make sense, may chafe and may seem silly to us. But violating them can cause you and others serious legal problems and IMHO also brings discredit to the community of responsible shooters.
 
Thank you

fiddletown I appreciate your posting that reference. I really don't want to play games with any of these boys. I already will have to deal with the Canadian Border and the required permit to transport any firearms though Canada on my way home. Whereas I have to get a permit for bringing a couple of firearms from here through Canada that requires serial numbers on a permit I'm already in a pinch. I doubt they would accept an explanation when I try returning with additional handguns that wee not on the original permit.
 
With the additional Canada issue to consider, it would be a lot easier to deal through FFLs. An FFL in the state of purchase could easily ship to your local FFL, and your gun would be waiting for you when you returned home. It may cost a little, but it's better than paying a lot more money to lawyers.

I've done that sort of thing in the past, and it can work quite well. I'm a good enough customer of a local dealer that he's happy to give me a few originally signed copies of his FFL when I travel out of state, just in case I see something.
 
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