buying from pawn on vacation

T

tahoe77

Inactive
Traveling to Reno soon, and thought about looking for deals on handguns at the pawn shops while there.
What are the rules like for purchasing out of state?
Do they have to ship to my nearby FFL? Could I bring it home in checked luggage?

Any other suggestions for buying from pawn, other than inspecting for wear when considering the price?
 
Fed rules - Wisconsin may be tighter - you may purchase and bring back a long gun. Hand guns must be shipped to a FLL in your state of residence. Getting them checked as airline baggage is a whole 'nother matter. Legal but frequently a hassle. Check with your airline for their particular requirements.

If you do buy a long gun, it would be cheaper just to mail it to yourself back home. Long guns can be shipped via USPS by anyone. They do not have to go thru a Wisconsin FFL (again fed rules, WI rules may be tougher) since you will already own the firearm.
 
Here is SLIGHTLY old report card for various airlines from the perspective of someone travelling with firearms.

As a non-Nevada resident you can't buy handguns, so I'll stick with long guns. They have to be in a locked hard sided case with some quality to it. A cheapie you can slip your hand inside while it's locked isn't good enough. Think Pelican. Many of the larger Pelican cases are considered oversized by most airlines. Some airlines don't both charging oversized for rifle cases because of this, or change their definition of oversized specifically for oversized. I've heard good things about Southwest and USAir. USAir's website specifically says only the length counts on rifle cases.

With all that said, it may be a wash price-wise and more convenient and safer to have the pawnshop ship to an FFL in your area and do the transfer at home. Shipping/Insurance is mostly their hassle then, and with baggage fees what they are, that might offset the shipping and FFL transfer costs.
 
Thanks guys. Sounds like I might as well skip the pawn shops.
Was just hoping to find a better deal on a Bersa Thunder .380. I had read somewhere that you can find them used for around $200.
Will probably end up buying new from Budsgunshop.
 
One comment on the hard sided cases required, from experience.

Buy one that is marked as "Airline/TSA approved" and labelled as such. When you get the case home detach the "Airline/TSA approved" label & stick it inside the case.

If there is a question about the quality of the case have the security guy open it & show the label. It cures lots of problems with "approved" luggage instantly as they all accept those makers labels.;)
 
wogpotter said:
If there is a question about the quality of the case have the security guy open it & show the label. It cures lots of problems with "approved" luggage instantly as they all accept those makers labels.
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Correction: Do NOT have the security guy open it. YOU open it. No matter what an airline or a TSA drone may try to tell you, the federal law covering this clearly states that only the firearm owner is to retain the key or combination to the locked case. If you hand the key to a TSA agent and he/she opens your gun case, you have committed a criminal offense and he/she probably has, as well.

Question: How can a gun case be TSA Approved when the TSA does not approve gun cases? The law does not offer any quality standards, it just says "hard-sided." And the law makes no provision for the TSA to adopt rules establishing quality standards for the hard-sided cases.

http://law.justia.com/cfr/title49/49-9.1.3.5.8.2.10.6.html
 
Fedlaw requires that handgun transfers occur at an FFL in your state of residence, so you could have guns shipped back to WI.

No issue about getting such a gun on an aircraft, since you would not be permitted to take possession in NV.
 
Do NOT have the security guy open it. YOU open it. No matter what an airline or a TSA drone may try to tell you,
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I had this exact argument at Logan International.:eek: It depends who you are referring to as "the security guy", the airline inspector has one set of rules the TSA another.

The ticket counter person insisted that I should open it, the TSA officer insisted that I could not touch it once it was on his table for inspection.
It too almost a full hour for the two of them to argue it out, including bringing in managers & supervisors from both sides.

I got coffee from nearby & let them have at it until they reached a decision.:rolleyes:

The final result was that for the airline I was required to unlock it, hand it to the airline employees so he could insert the waiver I'd signed stating that it was unloaded. After that it was to be relocked & placed on the TSA table for inspection by the TSA inspector who had to unlock it with the keys I gave him, inspect it & then he had to re-lock it before passing it on to baggage handling without me touching it again.

I neither know nor care about the theorizing of minutae but about getting on the scheduled flight with my checked firearm & this was how it was done in the real world, internet expertise not withstanding.

As for the label I never ever said it was any legal statute, just that all concerned take it as one without further discussion. Probably utterly bogus, but as long as the airline & the TSA say it OK with them I don't give a darn I just want to get on the flight. My case is just a 4-lock foam filled aluminum shell with a frame but they seem to prefer a label to a specification so I'm good with it if they are.
 
Its simpler then you think.

If traveling, and you think you might find a gun to buy "out of state" simple get with your local FFL dealer, get a copy of his license.

Then if you find something you just cant live without, you're ready. If its a handgun, or in a place that wont sell to out of state'ers, or you simply don't want to haul it around with you on your vacation,

Just give him a copy of the FFL, buy the gun, pay the shipping to your FFL, and deal with him when you get home.

Every gun owner should be prepared............to me that includes being prepared to buy a gun that suits your fancy when traveling.


Last summer, I decided I needed a certain shotgun. I go to Portland OR every 4th of July to visit my Daughter so I checked every gun store from here to Portland for the best price.

Found the best deal starting out, in Billings MT Cabalas. After not finding a better deal on my trip, I called Cabalas and told them I would be on my way home in a few days and wanted to pick up the gun.

The policy is you only had a limited time to pick up the gun once bought, BUT, you could put it on lay a way. Make as large a deposit as you want, and pay it off when you pick it up.

I did, put it on lay a way, paying everything but ONE CENT, then a week later I stopped on my way home, gave them a penny, filled out the paper work and headed home with my new shotgun.

Being a long gun, as a non resident of MT I didn't need an FFL, but if it happened to be a handgun, I would have done the same then, only give them a copy of my friendly dealers FFL, and they would have shipped it to him. Probably would have beat me home anyway.
 
Curious---On the popular pawn shop TV show from Las Vegas, they make the
point that they will not buy guns newer than 1898 because they do not have
a FFL.

On pre 1898 antique guns, do the same out of state rules apply? Or is it cash and carry?:confused:
 
BillM Curious---On the popular pawn shop TV show from Las Vegas, they make the
point that they will not buy guns newer than 1898 because they do not have
a FFL.

On pre 1898 antique guns, do the same out of state rules apply? Or is it cash and carry?
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ATF regulations do not apply to pre 1898 firearms:
http://www.ecfr.gov/cgi-bin/text-idx?SID=70394195a3edf623eba7ce77a1bddff1&node=27:3.0.1.2.3&rgn=div5#sp27.3.478.b
Firearm. Any weapon, including a starter gun, which will or is designed to or may readily be converted to expel a projectile by the action of an explosive; the frame or receiver of any such weapon; any firearm muffler or firearm silencer; or any destructive device; but the term shall not include an antique firearm. In the case of a licensed collector, the term shall mean only curios and relics.
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Antique firearm. (a) Any firearm (including any firearm with a matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system) manufactured in or before 1898; and (b) any replica of any firearm described in paragraph (a) of this definition if such replica (1) is not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition, or (2) uses rimfire or conventional centerfire fixed ammunition which is no longer manufactured in the United States and which is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade.
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wogpotter said:
The final result was that for the airline I was required to unlock it, hand it to the airline employees so he could insert the waiver I'd signed stating that it was unloaded. After that it was to be relocked & placed on the TSA table for inspection by the TSA inspector who had to unlock it with the keys I gave him, inspect it & then he had to re-lock it before passing it on to baggage handling without me touching it again.

I neither know nor care about the theorizing of minutae but about getting on the scheduled flight with my checked firearm & this was how it was done in the real world, internet expertise not withstanding.
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That may be how it was done, but it was still illegal, and that has nothing to do with "Internet expertise" and everything to do with what the law says.

49 C.F.R. § 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

Title 49 - Transportation

§ 1540.111 Carriage of weapons, explosives, and incendiaries by individuals.

(a) On an individual's person or accessible property—prohibitions. Except as provided in paragraph (b) of this section, an individual may not have a weapon, explosive, or incendiary, on or about the individual's person or accessible property—

(1) When performance has begun of the inspection of the individual's person or accessible property before entering a sterile area, or before boarding an aircraft for which screening is conducted under §1544.201 or §1546.201 of this chapter;

(2) When the individual is entering or in a sterile area; or

(3) When the individual is attempting to board or onboard an aircraft for which screening is conducted under §§1544.201, 1546.201, or 1562.23 of this chapter.

(b) On an individual's person or accessible property—permitted carriage of a weapon. Paragraph (a) of this section does not apply as to carriage of firearms and other weapons if the individual is one of the following:

(1) Law enforcement personnel required to carry a firearm or other weapons while in the performance of law enforcement duty at the airport.

(2) An individual authorized to carry a weapon in accordance with §§1544.219, 1544.221, 1544.223, 1546.211, or subpart B of part 1562 of this chapter.

(3) An individual authorized to carry a weapon in a sterile area under a security program.

(c) In checked baggage. A passenger may not transport or offer for transport in checked baggage or in baggage carried in an inaccessible cargo hold under §1562.23 of this chapter:

(1) Any loaded firearm(s).

(2) Any unloaded firearm(s) unless—

(i) The passenger declares to the aircraft operator, either orally or in writing, before checking the baggage, that the passenger has a firearm in his or her bag and that it is unloaded;

(ii) The firearm is unloaded;

(iii) The firearm is carried in a hard-sided container; and

(iv) The container in which it is carried is locked, and only the passenger retains the key or combination.

(3) Any unauthorized explosive or incendiary.

(d) Ammunition. This section does not prohibit the carriage of ammunition in checked baggage or in the same container as a firearm. Title 49 CFR part 175 provides additional requirements governing carriage of ammunition on aircraft.

[67 FR 8353, Feb. 22, 2002, as amended at 67 FR 41639, June 19, 2002; 70 FR 41600, July 19, 2005]
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I am fully aware that TSA agents prefer to take the key -- in fact, for a long time (possibly still) the TSA's own FAQ site advised travelers with guns to give the key to the inspector. But ... the law is the law, and law prohibits doing so.

Armed with that knowledge, each of us can make their own choice as to whether to placate the TSA drone, or obey the law.
 
I've been travelling with a Pelican 1720 for about 8 years now... a dozen different airlines and NO PROBLEMS.

When you walk up to the ticket counter, make sure your NON-TSA APPROVED locks are unlocked, and simply tell the Associate that you need a Firearms Declaration Form. Then fill it out and have them watch you place it in the case. If you're at an airport where the case is going directly back behind the counter and that's the last you'll see of it, LOCK all your locks and watch it go down the conveyor. (You were smart and showed up 2hrs early because you were travelling with guns and wanted to give the TSA plenty of time to screw you and still be able to fix it and make your flight.) When you're done at the counter, just hang out down there in the in the general vicinity of the counter for about 20 minutes. If you don't hear your name called, it's probably fine and on it's way to the plane. If they call your name, it's because your case was probably chosen at random to be opened and they need to get inside it. How you handle it from that point forward and whether you make your flight all depends on who you have to deal with. Good luck.

HOWEVER, if after you put the declaration form inside, you then need to carry it over to the TSA scanner people, DO NOT LOCK THE CASE YET. Walk it over there and when you give them the case, show them that it isn't locked yet and let them do their thing. They may tell you straight away to lock it before you give it to them, which means that particular dude isn't going to swab the inside. Then they will either lock it themselves in front of you, or they'll ask you to do it, and then it'll go in the scanner and disappear.

I've done this at least 3 dozen times and nearly a dozen airlines and I've never had a single problem. Be friendly and smile and say "Howdy, Sir" or "Howdy Ma'am"... you'd be surprised how often a little politeness works on people who work for the airlines.
 
"...might as well skip the pawn shops..." Pop in anyway. There's all kinds of good stuff in pawn shops. You never know what you'll find.
"...called Cabalas..." Cabela's? They'll ship to your local Cabela's, if there is one. Free, I think.
 
That may be how it was done, but it was still illegal, and that has nothing to do with "Internet expertise" and everything to do with what the law says.
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Actually its simpler than that. I wanted to catch the plane, not argue online. As long as they were all happy I didn't give a hoot. I hope you have a great time discussing legal technicalities & telling the TSA they are WRONG & ILLEGAL as your flight hits V2 & departs without you.:D
 
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