Buying At Gun shows - Is it Really That Easy ?

M

Mike H

New member
Some guy I work with was giving me a hard time the other day about the ease with which handguns can be purchased at state gun shows. As I've always purchased through recognised dealers I didn't know enough to give an adequate reply / defense.

Just what are the procedures and is it really that easy, surely you still need a drivers licence / I.D., is it just that there is no background check, which is what he seemed to be saying. Advice/comments appreciated,

Regards

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Mike H
 
I don't know about PA, but in cali, its a pain in the ass, you might as well be buying from an FFL, cuz all transfers have to be done through an ffl. nothing called a private transfer in CA. everything goes through an FFL and is recorded and has to go through the 10 day waiting period. and like 2 backgournd check sometime

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It ain't mah fault. did I do dat?
 
If you're buying from an FFL, it's exactly the same as if you were at his shop. If you're buying from a private seller, ditto.

All that media boolsheet about "gun show loopholes" is exactly that: boolsheet.

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"The evils of tyranny are rarely seen but by him who resists it."
-- John Hay, 1872
 
Sellers and buyers at gun shows are not exempt from obeying the law. Dealers at gun shows are subject to the same laws and regulations that apply at their stores. Non-dealers are subject to the same laws as if they were in a cow pasture. If the laws are not being obeyed, those violating them should be punished, regardless of where the violation takes place.

The media singles out gun shows because banning gun shows is part of the anti-gun agenda. They don't seem to care about sales to known criminals by street-corner gun peddlers, perhaps because these are often members of minority groups and the media does not want to be accused of racism.

If the same pressure were being applied to the continual purveying of lies and half-truths by the media that is being applied to gun ownership, the media would scream bloody murder. Newspapers demand "truth" in lending, "truth" in sales, "truth" in advertising, but oppose any attempt to ensure any "truth" in reporting.

JIm
 
There are small variations in the law from state to state. In Tennessee all sales through FFL dealers at gunshows must meet the same requirments as if in the gun store. NICS, 4473, fingerprints, etc.
Sales by non-FFL dealers at gun shows are considered private sales between individuals. The only law which applies is that both buyer and seller must be at least 18 years of age.
It can be a real pain to buy from a dealer at a gun show. If the NICS is backed up, you might buy something too late in the day on Saturday and have to come back on Sunday, pay admission again, to pick it up. If this happens on Sunday, you will either pick the gun up at the dealers shop or if the dealer is from out of town, you will have to have him transfer the gun to a local dealer and start the whole NICS thing over from scratch.
 
Anytime you buy from a FFL, you must do the paperwork, in any state. The only thing that would vary from state to state would be from a private individual to another private individual. Some states allow private sales, some require you go through FFL no matter what. In VA, you can sell to a private individual without a FFL.
Mike-tell your co-worker that he can't always believe what the media or politicians say. (Unless he believes Al Gore invented the internet ;) )
 
Texas -

You need ID - driver's license or state ID.
Then you do the 4473 form. If you have
a CHL - you are done. If not, you do the
NICS check. It has been going pretty
well in TX. No major hangups.
 
Here in PA it is no different buying at a gun show then walking into your favorite gun shop. Fill out the paper work and submit to instacheck...

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gun control is people control
 
I just bought a gun at the local FFl here in Manhattan Kansas the other day. It was remarkably painless.

I fill out a form with my vital statistics, he looks at my driver's liscense, he calls in the info and I'm out faster than most credit card swipes at 7-11 :)

after all the media hype I was expecting a waiting period and some rigorous blood tests, maybe a urine sample and some DNA analysis. Course he wouldn't believe I was 21 but hey I get that alot. :)
 
As noted above in other posts for other states, in AZ it doesn't matter whether you're in a gun show or not - the rules for each type of transaction remain the same.

I don't know the percentages, but it looks like at least 90% to 95% of the actual firearms transactions at gun shows are from licensed dealers (FFL's) to individuals. So, all the hassle applies - 4473 forms, and either calling in to NICS (which is often 'conveniently' down during many shows), or checking your concealed carry permit (if you have one). The other 5% to 10% of the firearms sales appear to be from private collector to individual - just as you can do in AZ any day of the week, via the newspaper, word of mouth, etc.

Note that the media almost always implies that there are NO transfer requirements at gun shows. And, if the real concern is keeping guns out of the hands of bad guys, then why don't most states institute a Project Exile, like Virginia? Is the point to keep guns out of the hands of BG's? No. The point is to tighten controls on honest citizens, using the BG / gun show argument as a veneer.

The gun show hysteria is a red herring - they are really after private transfers, and the bastards are making headway. After killing private transfers, then they have effectively imposed registration for essentially all future firearms transfers.

And then .... well, see http://www.sksbuyback.org . Yeah, we're paranoid ... we think states are starting to confiscate firearms based upon the lists they keep. ;)

Regards from AZ


ps - and here's what David Kopel has to say about gun shows, and David is a brilliant guy:
http://www.nraila.org/research/19990716-GunShows-001.html



[This message has been edited by Jeff Thomas (edited December 13, 1999).]
 
Guys,

Thanks, so noted. I feel a little converstaion with my fellow worker is now required.

Regards,

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Mike H
 
Last weekend I bought two pistols at a
gun show in Mesquite, TX. One pistol I
bought through a dealer and went through
the exact procedure as described by Glenn
Meyer, I filled out a 4473 and showed my
concealed handgun license.
The other pistol I bought from a private
individual and only showed my driver's
license as he wanted to make sure I was
a Texas resident. He didn't write anything
down. I paid cash and that was it.
That second transaction would upset a lot
of people but it was legal. There were several private transactions made there that
weekend and it is possible that a gun got
into the hands of a felon, hopefully not.
Obviously, I don't have a problem with private firearm transactions at gun shows
but they will probably come to an end around
here. It is my understanding that the Feb.
2000 show at Amon Carter Hall in Ft. Worth
will be "dealer only" gun sales and I would
imagine the others will follow suite. I
don't know about the Dallas/Mesquite shows.
They are put on by different people.
 
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