Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
OK, I am buying an ACOG for a 16" AR-15 carbine. It will be used from 30m to 300m. What is the best ACOG for this rifle? Money is no object (at least for the purposes of this discussion).
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Buying an ACOG
- Thread starter Bartholomew Roberts
- Start date
The only ACOG I'm familiar with is the 4x32 Trijicon ACOG. That's because "ACOG" is a registered trademark of the Trijicon corporation. I assume this is what you are looking for. I'm also assuming you are looking for the scope and not the ACOG Reflex optical sight.
This is a great scope. Its used by navy seals among others. Light, small, waterproof (to 500ft!), shockproof, paralax free, etc. The reticle is tritium illuminated and has a bullet drop compensator out to 600m calibrated to the SS109 bullet (62gr). There is also a model that includes the Bindon Aiming Concept; a daylight illuminated reticle. The only real downside to the scope is that, because of the design, if you suffer from presbyopia (age induced inability to close focus), you'll have trouble focusing on the reticle. This isn't a problem with the 20 and 30-somethings in the military but for us 42+ crowd it can be taxing.
Good thing money is not an object because these aren't cheap. The best price I've seen on them is at http://www.botachtactical.com/trijacrifsco.html. They have the basic 4x32 (TA01) for $565 and the BAC equiped 4x32 (TA31) for $741. If you have a flat-top, the TA01NSN incorporates the mount, a set of backup tritium iron sights, and costs $711. The TA01NSN is the exact model used by the US military to mount on the M4 carbine.
[This message has been edited by proximo (edited August 30, 2000).]
This is a great scope. Its used by navy seals among others. Light, small, waterproof (to 500ft!), shockproof, paralax free, etc. The reticle is tritium illuminated and has a bullet drop compensator out to 600m calibrated to the SS109 bullet (62gr). There is also a model that includes the Bindon Aiming Concept; a daylight illuminated reticle. The only real downside to the scope is that, because of the design, if you suffer from presbyopia (age induced inability to close focus), you'll have trouble focusing on the reticle. This isn't a problem with the 20 and 30-somethings in the military but for us 42+ crowd it can be taxing.
Good thing money is not an object because these aren't cheap. The best price I've seen on them is at http://www.botachtactical.com/trijacrifsco.html. They have the basic 4x32 (TA01) for $565 and the BAC equiped 4x32 (TA31) for $741. If you have a flat-top, the TA01NSN incorporates the mount, a set of backup tritium iron sights, and costs $711. The TA01NSN is the exact model used by the US military to mount on the M4 carbine.
[This message has been edited by proximo (edited August 30, 2000).]
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Thanks for the reply, Proximo. Perhaps I should clarify - I have done gobs of web-based research, ordered the literature from Trijicon, and done my best to put my hands on a few samples (unfortunately, only one - and no shooting it).
I would like to hear from people who own or have used ACOGs (either the 3.5x35, 4x32, or the compacts) about any issues they have encountered that I probably won't discover in the product literature.
I would also be interested in opinions concerning which ACOG is best across the widest spectrum of use.
I would like to hear from people who own or have used ACOGs (either the 3.5x35, 4x32, or the compacts) about any issues they have encountered that I probably won't discover in the product literature.
I would also be interested in opinions concerning which ACOG is best across the widest spectrum of use.
Jeff White
New member
I have a 4x32 ACOG TAO1. I have had it for 12 years. The red tritium illumination is still bright (I think red degrades the slowest). It is almost indestructable. The only complaint I have is the short eye relief and the lack of good lens covers for it. I originally mounted it on the carry handle of my preban Colt HBAR, but now it rests on a flattop Bushmaster. I really recommend the flattop mounting as it is a little high on the carry handle. A year ago I inquired as to replacing the reticule (mine has the original reticule which has a large dot in the center of the crosshair for close shooting, instead of the fine duplex on the newer models. Trijicon advised that cost to change the reticule would be $132.00 and that it would be best to wait until the tritium was gone.
HTH
Jeff
HTH
Jeff
I have the 4x32 and a 2x20 Compact. Both are great scopes. I have the 4x32 on a flat top Colt HBAR and prefer this one when ranges exceed 100 yards. For CQB, 3-gun competition etc., though I really like the Compact. I have this one mainly on a Colt Lightweight (carry handle mounted). This would be the scope I'd keep if I had to choose just one for all purposes. It's very fast, you can keep both eyes open and its usable from near-contact distance to 300 yards (the limits of my eyes). Mine has the triangle reticle - just cover the target with the triangle for fast hits at sub-35 yard ranges; use the point of the triangle for precision stuff.
Both great scopes. Hope this helps.
John
Both great scopes. Hope this helps.
John
Bartholomew Roberts
Moderator
Thanks to everyone for the input. I have talked with one guy who claims that he can't tell the difference between the TA31 (the model I am leaning towards) with BAC and the TA01 that he had previously.
He also indicated that he had trouble with the dot on the TA31 washing out in bright light.
Have any of you had any of the problems he has encountered (or any trouble using BAC)?
Proximo: Does the condition you mention make it difficult to use the BAC feature?
Also, those of you that have the 4x or 3.5x with BAC - does the magnification cause you any trouble in engaging targets at shorter ranges (like 30m)? I expect it to be a little bit slower than the reflex or lower magnification ACOGs; but does it slow you down a lot or make you slower than iron sights close in?
He also indicated that he had trouble with the dot on the TA31 washing out in bright light.
Have any of you had any of the problems he has encountered (or any trouble using BAC)?
Proximo: Does the condition you mention make it difficult to use the BAC feature?
Also, those of you that have the 4x or 3.5x with BAC - does the magnification cause you any trouble in engaging targets at shorter ranges (like 30m)? I expect it to be a little bit slower than the reflex or lower magnification ACOGs; but does it slow you down a lot or make you slower than iron sights close in?
Bartholomew, I'm 45 with a slight case of presbyopia. Its the nature of the onset of presbyopia that at certain times of the day it is hard to focus up close and at others it isn't. Most adults will get presbyopia to some degree or another starting around age 42.
Sometimes when I look through the ACOG, the reticle is blurred and sometimes it is sharp. When I first got the ACOG, I sent it back to Trijicon thinking it was defective but they returned it with a note saying it was working perfectly and that it was likely my eyes that were at fault. Anyway, I've gotten used to it now. Usually its only when my eyes are tired that I notice it but its never so bad as to make the scope unusable. Its just that the yardage numbers on the bullet drop compensator get blurry sometimes and I can't resolve them without straining. I don't have this problem with traditional rifle scopes so I'm assuming its just inherent in the ACOG design that the reticle plane is much closer than "normal".
My ACOG doesn't have the BAC so I don't know how much presbyopia effects it. I suspect no more or less than the non-illuminated reticle. Maybe less given that the BAC is intended, if I understand it right, to make fast target acquisition possible, somewhat like a red-dot scope, so focusing on the reticle isn't as critcal.
Sometimes when I look through the ACOG, the reticle is blurred and sometimes it is sharp. When I first got the ACOG, I sent it back to Trijicon thinking it was defective but they returned it with a note saying it was working perfectly and that it was likely my eyes that were at fault. Anyway, I've gotten used to it now. Usually its only when my eyes are tired that I notice it but its never so bad as to make the scope unusable. Its just that the yardage numbers on the bullet drop compensator get blurry sometimes and I can't resolve them without straining. I don't have this problem with traditional rifle scopes so I'm assuming its just inherent in the ACOG design that the reticle plane is much closer than "normal".
My ACOG doesn't have the BAC so I don't know how much presbyopia effects it. I suspect no more or less than the non-illuminated reticle. Maybe less given that the BAC is intended, if I understand it right, to make fast target acquisition possible, somewhat like a red-dot scope, so focusing on the reticle isn't as critcal.
Well I know I'm a little late in picking up this thread but, here goes. I'm considering also in purchasing an ACOG from trijicon. Mounting on a flat-top receiver. Out of curiosity, what has caused those out there to purchase specific models of the ACOG? Are there any downsides (other than price) that owners have griped about? Any problems mounting or sighting-in?
Wunderwaffe
New member
I purchased a used 4x32mm which I mounted on my issue m16a2. It mounts (more like screw onto)easily onto the handle. I picked it over the Elcan back then because I didn't want to bother with Weaver rails.
Scope worked great and I've had no gripes about it. If ACOGs have rubber armor like the Elcan, that would be icing on the cake.
Scope worked great and I've had no gripes about it. If ACOGs have rubber armor like the Elcan, that would be icing on the cake.