I know for sure that replacing a sloppy bushing like the one I had on my Series 80 Colt with a match quality version improves accuracy. Bull barrels eliminate the bushing and offhand that seems like a good thing. The question I have is how bull barrels achieve any degree of accuracy. Granted, they can be fitted at the underlug and hood but once the slide starts rearward during recoil, the front of the barrel is unsupported as nearly as I can tell. I have never owned or even shot one so I defer to those who have. Maybe they have a support ring or something along the barrel like my old 1903? Not sure how that would work with a tilting barrel. Just curious. Bet Harry B knows.
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Bushings vs. Bull Barrels
- Thread starter MISFIRE
- Start date
The barrel is still locked to the slide long after the bullet is gone. The bull barrel locks in the front by a snug fit between the barrel and the slide, and that is all that locks it up front. The front of the barrel is cut at an angle that 'unlocks' the barrel from the slide as it begins to link down. Properly fit they have a LOT of contact area with the slide, and can be extremely accurate.
Harry Bonar
New member
bushing
Hey! HSMITH is right on, I've just never used one. But I'm sure he's right that bull bbls are really accurate. I've never fit one but they seem to be as accurate as a bushing if fitted right.
He knows how to fit one right.
Harry B.
Hey! HSMITH is right on, I've just never used one. But I'm sure he's right that bull bbls are really accurate. I've never fit one but they seem to be as accurate as a bushing if fitted right.
He knows how to fit one right.
Harry B.
There is no reason why a bull barrel should not be as accurate as a bushing, BUT if the fitting is messed up with a bushing, you replace the cheap bushing. If the fitting is messed up with the bull barrel, you have to work on or replace two very expensive parts. I vote for the bushing.
Jim
Jim
Theoretically, a bull barrel should be more accurate than a bushing barrel if both are fit with the same degree of perfection. This is because the bull barrel only has one clearance between it and the slide in the front, the bushing barrel has one clearance between the bushing and the slide and another between the bushing and the barrel.
Practically speaking it doesn't make enough difference to talk about. A properly fit bushing barrel can be incredibly accurate and the difference between it and a bull barrel just isn't useable.
Practically speaking it doesn't make enough difference to talk about. A properly fit bushing barrel can be incredibly accurate and the difference between it and a bull barrel just isn't useable.
I prefer the bull barrel. I had a Factory Comped Springfield PDP Defender that I bought in the 1990s - it was a bull barrel with the comp on the end. Super easy to take apart. No screwing with the spring or bushing wrenches or 2 piece guide rods.
If I get another 1911 and can afford it, I'd rather have a bull barrel.
If I get another 1911 and can afford it, I'd rather have a bull barrel.
Harry Bonar
New member
bushing
Sir:
I'm with Jim - mine also, I liked to have them lapped into the slide so that you would need the wrench to turn it and the bbl. muzzle would be lapped in. So, really there would be immoveable in battery. I also feel that the bushing/bbl. fit would be longer lasting although I've seen bull bbl. last a long time too.
Russel Bonar, father of Jo Ann Bonar who tried out for the olympic with 45 and 22 cals, invented the S&W bbl. cone but never patened it but now, S&W uses it on most all semi-autos.
We, on 45s. would also take about .005 off of the bbl. behind the muzzle, so that the bbl. didn't touch in operation.
It's very easy to set up your pistol for this because most match bushings are oversize for fitting. A word here: It's also imperative that your bushing have NO end-play in the slide with its lug - it can damage the inner milled portion inside the slide by battering if that is loose!
Harry B.
Sir:
I'm with Jim - mine also, I liked to have them lapped into the slide so that you would need the wrench to turn it and the bbl. muzzle would be lapped in. So, really there would be immoveable in battery. I also feel that the bushing/bbl. fit would be longer lasting although I've seen bull bbl. last a long time too.
Russel Bonar, father of Jo Ann Bonar who tried out for the olympic with 45 and 22 cals, invented the S&W bbl. cone but never patened it but now, S&W uses it on most all semi-autos.
We, on 45s. would also take about .005 off of the bbl. behind the muzzle, so that the bbl. didn't touch in operation.
It's very easy to set up your pistol for this because most match bushings are oversize for fitting. A word here: It's also imperative that your bushing have NO end-play in the slide with its lug - it can damage the inner milled portion inside the slide by battering if that is loose!
Harry B.
Jim and Harry, I absolutely agree with you that the practical difference between a bushing barrel fit right and a bull barrel are so slight as to be insignificant. I also lap a bushing in to the slide, tight enough to need a wrench but JUST tight enough to need one. I just can't shoot well enough to tell the difference between a well fit bushing barrel and a well fit bull barrel.
I prefer the bushing barrel, less weight and take down isn't hard at all if a one peice guide rod or a GI recoil system is used...
I prefer the bushing barrel, less weight and take down isn't hard at all if a one peice guide rod or a GI recoil system is used...
I agree on the takedown; of course those pistols we did the old way weren't meant to be detail stripped every five minutes like they do today for the fun of it. I also turned the barrel behind the bushing, but a tad further back, as I wanted good support until the bullet was out of the barrel. And mostly they worked fine and for long periods of time, which is why I don't understand why now you have to be always replacing springs (one "guru" recommends replacing the recoil spring every 200 rounds!). Nonsense, says I. The folks at Wolff are very nice, but I can't see buying them mcmansions and Mercedes Benz limos.
Jim
Jim
Thanks all. Learned a bunch from all this. Obviously the point I was missing was that the bullet is long gone before the barrel starts rearward.
Not to beat this thing to death but what then is the claim to fame of spherical bushings with the internal bearing that rotates in the horizontal axis as the barrel tilts during recoil? It would still have to be well fitted to the barrel just like the standard bushing and/or bull barrel and the bullet is long gone before any rotation takes place. I think Briley makes one.
Not to beat this thing to death but what then is the claim to fame of spherical bushings with the internal bearing that rotates in the horizontal axis as the barrel tilts during recoil? It would still have to be well fitted to the barrel just like the standard bushing and/or bull barrel and the bullet is long gone before any rotation takes place. I think Briley makes one.
The supposed advantage of the spherical bushing is contact area, it will have more area in contact with the barrel than a standard bushing. It is true that it has more contact area, but you have to have some clearance for the bearing to move in the bushing. Now you have three clearances in play.
I have shot a custom gun from Briley that had their super D duper bushing in it, it was a REALLY nice gun and very accurate. That tells me that the system can be made to work well, but I can't find a reason why I should consider one when a normal bushing is simpler, will shoot as well as anything can, and has one less clearance needed. The other think that has kept me from playing with them are the tools needed to fit one right, adds costs that I don't pay when using more traditional methods.
I have shot a custom gun from Briley that had their super D duper bushing in it, it was a REALLY nice gun and very accurate. That tells me that the system can be made to work well, but I can't find a reason why I should consider one when a normal bushing is simpler, will shoot as well as anything can, and has one less clearance needed. The other think that has kept me from playing with them are the tools needed to fit one right, adds costs that I don't pay when using more traditional methods.