Bush vetoes ban on harsh interrogation

Status
Not open for further replies.
U

Unregistered

Moderator
Bush just vetoed the Detainee Treatment Act which would have limited interrogators to using only the techniques in the Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation.

This means that the CIA will now be able to use waterboarding, and other proven intelligence gathering techniques that will keep us safe from the evil doers, such as stripping prisoners naked, having them perform or mimick sex acts, mock executions, etc.

If the Democrats have their way, they will override the Presidents veto. If they do, blood will be on their hands when the next terrorist attack occurs. We must do anything it takes to keep us safe and free, so we can remain the moral leaders of the world and set the example for less civilized nations that resort to things such as torture and human rights abuses to stay maintain authority.
 
Bush just vetoed the Detainee Treatment Act which would have limited interrogators to using only the techniques in the Army Field Manual on Intelligence Interrogation.
Click to expand...

I'm all for that....

This means that the CIA will now be able to use waterboarding, and other proven intelligence gathering techniques that will keep us safe from the evil doers...
Click to expand...

Yes, yes, I like what you said here....

such as stripping prisoners naked, having them perform or mimick sex acts, mock executions, etc.
Click to expand...

...what? You lost me...
 
Isn't it sort of ironic that we COURT-MARTIALLED the bad guys in WW2 for using water-boarding during interrogation, and punished American soldiers in Vietnam for doing the same thing, but now claim that it's an indispensable tool to fight terrorism? We should kill every last terrorist we can lay eyes on, but when you try to justify using their methods by saying "Oh, that's because we're the good guys and they're the bad guys", it doesn't sound very convincing.
 
such as stripping prisoners naked, having them perform or mimick sex acts, mock executions, etc.
Click to expand...
Can you point to a source that shows this is a common operating procedure for the CIA rather than an aberation?
 
Can you point to a source that shows this is a common operating procedure for the CIA rather than an aberation?
Click to expand...

Waterboarding is not a common operating procedure. It is simply another tool in the interrogators toolbox. It has only been used a few times. Our leaders know when to use it, and when not to use it, and should be trusted to make the decision. The other techniques are available also, but of course will only be used very infrequently to deal with the most hardened terrorists who fail to divulge the most critical information. None of the techniques are common operating procedure.

The bill that was vetoed would have banned those activities in addition to waterboarding.
 
If the Democrats have their way, they will override the Presidents veto. If they do, blood will be on their hands when the next terrorist attack occurs. We must do anything it takes to keep us safe and free, so we can remain the moral leaders of the world and set the example for less civilized nations that resort to things such as torture and human rights abuses to stay maintain authority.
Click to expand...

I must be missing something...just a clarification please.

Are you in favor or against waterboarding?

The way I read this last paragraph was that you would be upset if the Democrats overturned the veto and that we need to set the example and remain the moral leaders of the world, contradicting points. Could just be me and I am missing something.
 
Waterboarding is not a common operating procedure. It is simply another tool in the interrogators toolbox. It has only been used a few times. Our leaders know when to use it, and when not to use it, and should be trusted to make the decision. The other techniques are available also, but of course will only be used very infrequently to deal with the most hardened terrorists who fail to divulge the most critical information. None of the techniques are common operating procedure.
Click to expand...
The reason I left out waterboarding in my clip of your comment is that I understand waterboarding has been used with some degree of frequency. Thus, I would expect that procedure to be used again. On the other hand, I understand that stripping prisoners naked, having them perform or mimick sex acts, and mock executions were aberations. Thus, regardless of a veto or veto-override, I would not expect those procedures to be used again. However, your original post stated that they would, so I wanted the source on which you based your statement.
 
No, I am not saying that they would definitely be used ever. This would include waterboarding. But they would remain legal in our toolbox in case we decided we needed to use them. We would only use such techniques if our national security was at stake, such as is the case with the Al qaeda fighting us in Iraq.
 
Dems Fault

I love the logic that if torture is not allowed the demise of America will be becasue the Democrats are against water-boarding. Even if the attack come from a complete unknown the Dems will be at fault. Got to love that logic.

Why I might not disagree with banning water-boarding in alll cases I sure don't think it was a bright idea to make the veto an international event. Just what the country needs is notice to the entire world that America favors torture. Considering everything Bush has done in secret. Making his veto a televised event this seems a bit impractical. Think the headlines in Al Qaeda land will not show American believe in torture?
 
Think the headlines in Al Qaeda land will not show American believe in torture?
Click to expand...

Those countries already believe in torture and use it regularly so I dont believe that they will be that shocked. While we waterboard their people we have as prisoners they behead ours; not a fair deal in my estimation.
 
The use of torture by ANY person, government or entity, for ANY reason is the worst abomination that humans have yet devised. And no, its use can never be justified, in any situation. Even when it is suspect that someone has sensitive information, torture is too unreliable to produce credible information. And never mind the whole "innocent until proven guilty" thing. Unregistered, your position is disgusting and I hope you realize that torture will never be acceptable.

If you do insist that waterboarding and other torture is acceptable, tell me how you'd feel about our government using some of these methods:

Knee Splitter
Judas Cradle
Chair of Torture
Pear of Anguish


Ask yourself how you would feel when an innocent person is subjected to any of the above, or any torture for that matter. Innocent WILL be tortured if torture is condoned.
 
This means that the CIA will now be able to use waterboarding, and other proven intelligence gathering techniques that will keep us safe from the evil doers, such as stripping prisoners naked, having them perform or mimick sex acts, mock executions, etc.
Click to expand...
Wow, you obviously have no intelligence experience. Those methods are only proven to do one thing...not work. I was in MI for my entire 8yr stint and all those methods accomplish are getting someone to tell you what you want to hear whether it is true or not. Which is a tactic this administration loves to use even on it's own intelligence community. They would rather use culled information that supports there pre-conceived ideas than to learn the truth.
 
Pretty common knowledge in both the intelligence community and the law enforcement community as a whole...but you go ahead and believe whatever you want to believe regardless of fact.
 
Waterboard me if you want, just don't subject me to hours of American Idol shows while I scream for mercy...

WildonemanspainisanothermanspleasureAlaska ™
 
such as stripping prisoners naked, having them perform or mimick sex acts,
Click to expand...
Hey, some people pay money for that, ya know, along with the chains and handcuffs. Considering we already throw in other accommodations as well, think of it as Las Vegas room service.
 
there is always the which determination method

using this technique the innocence or guilt of the individual was determined by wrapping them in chain and tossing them into the moat. The guilty drowned and the innocent would float to safety. :eek:
 
The use of torture by ANY person, government or entity, for ANY reason is the worst abomination that humans have yet devised. And no, its use can never be justified, in any situation.
Click to expand...

None of us are "in favor" of torture. But this quote reminds me of a lesson I learned early in my career (I'm retired now). I was trained in the problems associated with using words like "never", "always", "any", etc.

I have a simple question. If your daughter has been kidnapped by terrorists and it is likely that waterboarding will reveal her location (before she is raped and murdered/beheaded), would you be OK with waterboarding? Remember -- you said its use can never be justified.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top