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Bush??? Any thoughts
- Thread starter Bobby
- Start date
Well, he signed a shall-issue CCW bill and gave out just about NO flak on it in development.
That's a *strong* plus, that is. The TX shall-issue system is possibly the "worst" of the acceptable shall-issue systems; among other bad points:
1) Reciprocity has been slow in coming and limited compared to other states.
2) Issuance is linked to "social engineering", stuff like back taxes and other "debt to gov't" issues can render you ineligable.
3) You don't get "other weapons carry rights", so certain knives, batons, others stuff is still illegal even with permit.
4) Serial numbers of your guns are on the permit, adding new goodies is a pain. If your gun is simply a lemon and the manufacturer swaps it out completely you're screwed, etc.
5) Training is 16 hours.
6) If you accuracy-qualify with a revolver you can't carry a slidegun.
All that said, a LOT of permits have been issued, and if you really want one you can generally score. Actual issuance practices and honesty via the DPS ("Texas Rangers") have been generally well recieved over on tx.guns, which I've been keeping an eye on. Other TX gun laws are fairly decent, they allow private party sales that are truly private, for starters.
I don't think Bush was the reason their shall-issue system came out "flawed but mostly OK". Unless I hear different, he sounds like an improvement over Clinton AND his pop.
Wait...we ARE talking about the Texas Bush kid, right? Or is it the Florida Bush?
Jim March
That's a *strong* plus, that is. The TX shall-issue system is possibly the "worst" of the acceptable shall-issue systems; among other bad points:
1) Reciprocity has been slow in coming and limited compared to other states.
2) Issuance is linked to "social engineering", stuff like back taxes and other "debt to gov't" issues can render you ineligable.
3) You don't get "other weapons carry rights", so certain knives, batons, others stuff is still illegal even with permit.
4) Serial numbers of your guns are on the permit, adding new goodies is a pain. If your gun is simply a lemon and the manufacturer swaps it out completely you're screwed, etc.
5) Training is 16 hours.
6) If you accuracy-qualify with a revolver you can't carry a slidegun.
All that said, a LOT of permits have been issued, and if you really want one you can generally score. Actual issuance practices and honesty via the DPS ("Texas Rangers") have been generally well recieved over on tx.guns, which I've been keeping an eye on. Other TX gun laws are fairly decent, they allow private party sales that are truly private, for starters.
I don't think Bush was the reason their shall-issue system came out "flawed but mostly OK". Unless I hear different, he sounds like an improvement over Clinton AND his pop.
Wait...we ARE talking about the Texas Bush kid, right? Or is it the Florida Bush?
Jim March
Byron Quick
Staff In Memoriam
I wonder how much of his dad rubbed off on him?
Gov. Bush (of Texas) recently sent a warm and supportive letter of welcome to a meeting of the Texas State Rifle Association. This, to me, clearly indicates his views on gun rights and the people who support them.
I agree with an earlier poster's assessment of Gov. Bush's positive role in the Texas concealed carry law. I would just add that when Bush signed the concealed carry bill, he stated that it "would make Texas a safer place." In other words, he signed it freely, not merely as a political expedient.
I also agree with an earlier poster that the complexities and costs of the Texas concealed handgun license are not attributable to Bush. Despite Texas's general conservatism, there are enough anti-gun, anti-self-defense zealots in the Legislature (especially the delegation from Austin!) to require that the law be a compromise if it was to get to the Governor's desk in the first place. The law has been improved a little since it was first enacted, and Gov. Bush endorsed the improvements without hesitation.
In sum, I believe that Texas Gov. Bush is trustworthy on gun issues.
BTW, I'd like to take note of a misconception regarding the Texas concealed handgun license. Thankfully, it does not contain the serial numbers of specific guns authorized for carry. This restriction may have been proposed during the legislative debate on the law, but it was never enacted (I have a Texas CHL in my pocket, and there are neither serial numbers on it nor any requirement to report serial numbers to the issuing agency). The licensee may freely carry any gun that he or she wishes, as long as it's consistent with his or her revolver or revolver/semi-auto rating.
I agree with an earlier poster's assessment of Gov. Bush's positive role in the Texas concealed carry law. I would just add that when Bush signed the concealed carry bill, he stated that it "would make Texas a safer place." In other words, he signed it freely, not merely as a political expedient.
I also agree with an earlier poster that the complexities and costs of the Texas concealed handgun license are not attributable to Bush. Despite Texas's general conservatism, there are enough anti-gun, anti-self-defense zealots in the Legislature (especially the delegation from Austin!) to require that the law be a compromise if it was to get to the Governor's desk in the first place. The law has been improved a little since it was first enacted, and Gov. Bush endorsed the improvements without hesitation.
In sum, I believe that Texas Gov. Bush is trustworthy on gun issues.
BTW, I'd like to take note of a misconception regarding the Texas concealed handgun license. Thankfully, it does not contain the serial numbers of specific guns authorized for carry. This restriction may have been proposed during the legislative debate on the law, but it was never enacted (I have a Texas CHL in my pocket, and there are neither serial numbers on it nor any requirement to report serial numbers to the issuing agency). The licensee may freely carry any gun that he or she wishes, as long as it's consistent with his or her revolver or revolver/semi-auto rating.
Jim,
Gov. Bush won in a landslide against Gov. Ann Richards, at least in part because she was SO arrogant that she would not even permit a public referendum on CHL. Bush promised, "Get it to my desk and I'll sign it immediately." (or words to that effect).
Let me add my $0.02:
1) "Reciprocity has been slow in coming and limited compared to other states."
-- Many states accept Texas CHL because Texas requires more than the "recognizing" state.
-- Conversely, Texas does not recognize many states because their CHL requirements are "too lax" by Texas standards. (Don't flame on me. I'm telling you THEIR opinions - not necessarily MINE.)
2) "Issuance is linked to "social engineering", stuff like back taxes and other "debt to gov't" issues can render you ineligable."
-- True. But it refers to financial disregard to the extent a court has ruled the obligation to be in final default.
-- It's no problem being behind if you come to some agreement to keep it out of court and in "final default".
3) "You don't get "other weapons carry rights", so certain knives, batons, others stuff is still illegal even with permit."
-- True, and that grates on my Second Amendment bone.
-- However, it IS a CHL (Concealed HANDGUN License) - not a license to carry knives w/blades over 5.5", swords, clubs, etc.
-- OTOH, OC spray is not outlawed.
-- But local ordinances can be still stricter that state law.
-- Texas even outlawed carrying "Bowie knives"! Sacrilege!
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited February 19, 1999).]
Gov. Bush won in a landslide against Gov. Ann Richards, at least in part because she was SO arrogant that she would not even permit a public referendum on CHL. Bush promised, "Get it to my desk and I'll sign it immediately." (or words to that effect).
Let me add my $0.02:
1) "Reciprocity has been slow in coming and limited compared to other states."
-- Many states accept Texas CHL because Texas requires more than the "recognizing" state.
-- Conversely, Texas does not recognize many states because their CHL requirements are "too lax" by Texas standards. (Don't flame on me. I'm telling you THEIR opinions - not necessarily MINE.)
2) "Issuance is linked to "social engineering", stuff like back taxes and other "debt to gov't" issues can render you ineligable."
-- True. But it refers to financial disregard to the extent a court has ruled the obligation to be in final default.
-- It's no problem being behind if you come to some agreement to keep it out of court and in "final default".
3) "You don't get "other weapons carry rights", so certain knives, batons, others stuff is still illegal even with permit."
-- True, and that grates on my Second Amendment bone.
-- However, it IS a CHL (Concealed HANDGUN License) - not a license to carry knives w/blades over 5.5", swords, clubs, etc.
-- OTOH, OC spray is not outlawed.
-- But local ordinances can be still stricter that state law.
-- Texas even outlawed carrying "Bowie knives"! Sacrilege!
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited February 19, 1999).]
cont'd:
4) "Serial numbers of your guns are on the permit..."
-- Nope. But it is "wired" to your Driver's License in the "computer".
5) "Training is 16 hours."
-- Classroom hours minimum 10; maximum 15.
6) "If you accuracy-qualify with a revolver you can't carry a slidegun."
-- True. But you can upgrade later (additional fees apply).
-- We lend students our autos (to qualify) so they can carry either.
BTW, the background check is rather extensive - supposedly the same one state trooper candidates must pass.
The final effect is that CHL holders (per capita) are involved in less than 1/2 the offenses involving the general populace.
I HATE the idea of being "registered, licensed," whatever you want to call it. It is merely a list for the government to follow up on later. Then again, it does provide a way of using the state's own figures to show that good guys aren't the problems, "It's the crooks, stupid!"
And violent crime HAS dropped 12% to 35%, depending upon whom you believe.
I like our governor, but I can't forget his Daddy betrayed all Americans ("Read my lips! NO new taxes!) and especially gun owners with additional restrictions and vituperative attacks against the NRA.
Like ALL politicians, he bears considerable watching.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited February 19, 1999).]
4) "Serial numbers of your guns are on the permit..."
-- Nope. But it is "wired" to your Driver's License in the "computer".
5) "Training is 16 hours."
-- Classroom hours minimum 10; maximum 15.
6) "If you accuracy-qualify with a revolver you can't carry a slidegun."
-- True. But you can upgrade later (additional fees apply).
-- We lend students our autos (to qualify) so they can carry either.
BTW, the background check is rather extensive - supposedly the same one state trooper candidates must pass.
The final effect is that CHL holders (per capita) are involved in less than 1/2 the offenses involving the general populace.
I HATE the idea of being "registered, licensed," whatever you want to call it. It is merely a list for the government to follow up on later. Then again, it does provide a way of using the state's own figures to show that good guys aren't the problems, "It's the crooks, stupid!"
And violent crime HAS dropped 12% to 35%, depending upon whom you believe.
I like our governor, but I can't forget his Daddy betrayed all Americans ("Read my lips! NO new taxes!) and especially gun owners with additional restrictions and vituperative attacks against the NRA.
Like ALL politicians, he bears considerable watching.
[This message has been edited by Dennis (edited February 19, 1999).]
"Like ALL politicians he bears considerable watching." Good point, Dennis! A healthy dose of skepticism is not a bad idea. I believe that Gov. Bush has been trustworthy on gun issues at the state level. And, so far, I also believe that he's the best potential presidential candidate. But I'm assuming that he doesn't substantially alter his views upon entering the national arena. I hope my assumption proves true, but Washington, D.C., is known to have strange effects on politicians!
[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited February 19, 1999).]
[This message has been edited by jimmy (edited February 19, 1999).]
Thank you for the corrections, esp. the serial number bit. Sigh. I'm trying to juggle too many CCW systems in my poor brain. I'm also glad to hear the "debtor" thing ain't all that bad...I'd still call AZ's setup a step up, mind you.
Anyways. Yes, I did definately hear Bush did NOT have to be forced into signing. If he was running for prez, I'd remember that, and unless evidence popped up he's a complete arse somehow he'd have my support.
Jim March
Anyways. Yes, I did definately hear Bush did NOT have to be forced into signing. If he was running for prez, I'd remember that, and unless evidence popped up he's a complete arse somehow he'd have my support.
Jim March