Bunping Shoulders & Neck Sizing

B

Butte Sink

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Good Afternoon All,

I'm totally new to reloading and studying all I can.
Questions I have-- I've decided that with using my FL die that I'm going just bump back the shoulders of the fire formed brass "Nosler" that I have.

I started thinking and wondered if reloaders neck size after doing this? or will the FL die resize the neck and take out all the imperfections if any?

I'm loading hunting rounds for a 300 RUM, 280 AI and my sons 7MM REM MAG.

Thanks for any info!
 
Opinions will vary of course, but for Hunting most books recommend a full length resizer which is included in standard die sets as the best for reliability.

The full length die resizes the neck at the same time.

While neck sizing can make your brass last longer, it is an added expense and one can purchase a large amount of brass with the money saved from the extra equipment you would need.
 
Using your full length sizing die you can partially size the case so it fits the chamber better than giving the die a full stroke. Rather than setting the die to bottom on the shell holder adjust it to minimally resize the case to fit your chamber. You will work the brass less (which prolongs brass life) and still get rounds that chamber easily even with higher pressures used by the magnum.
I would neck size and only partially resize the neck. That works the brass the least and provides a better fit of the case from the base all the way to the unsized portion of the neck. I would do that to see if the primer pocket expands from the pressures you are using. If the primer pocket gets loose in the first 10 reloads, I would back off the load because, to me, the expanding primer pocket suggests too much pressure for the gun. While neck sizing if I got hard extraction I would also lower the load for the same reason. If it all went well with the partial neck sizing I would not change anything.

Reloading for a hunting gun requires that each round chambers easily so be sure to check the overall length and for any stickiness when extracting the cartridges. If they come out easily they should go back in easily.
 
I used to neck size my brass, but after a few firings, I had to bump the shoulder back in order to get my finished rounds to chamber easily. On the advice of a friend, I bought a Forster Neck/Shoulder die which takes care of both issues. I set it up to just kiss the shoulder on my cases and have been very satisfied with the results. Redding makes the same die, and it works the same way, but is much more expensive.
 
Nothing ruins a hunt faster than a round that won't allow the bolt to close but you also can't extract(ie,:stuck,wedged, jammed, @#$%&).
I put together some super, dooper accurate 25/06 loads that "just fit" my rifle's chamber once upon a time. While hunting, I found that about 1 in 10 didn't "just fit" w/o a lot of effort to close the bolt. Then one day, I found one that not only didn't "just fit", it also couldn't be extracted once jammed into the chamber.
That slam bang gitty up go brass is expensive, BUT an experience like I had makes it seem a lot cheaper to FL size.
 
And that is precisely why I check all of my ammo to make sure it chambers prior to the hunt, whether its factory or my own reloads. Just because you full length resize doesn't mean you do it right every single time.
 
Using the methods of ShootistPRS is a very good start.

What I will add in is the Hornayd now makes a device that Stony Point orignaly made that improvmes on that (comaparotr)

It has an adapor that grips the blade of your micrometer.


https://www.midwayusa.com/product/4...headspace-gauge-5-bushing-set-with-comparator

Frankly I got the Ogvie bullet set and then made my own shoulder measurer shoulder adaptor from one of the calibers I will never use. My measurement don't match anyone else that uses the "official: one but I can see the movement and that's what counts.


That also has various sizes of adaptors that set into the device that matching up with the shape of a given cartridge family shoulder.

For setting the die, you measure the fired case, size it and measure the resized case to the shoulder. You want to be about a turn back off touch the shell holder let alone the cam over the die mfg. says.

If you can dial it in, you will move it back .001 to .003. I go for .003.

Cases vary a bit.

If I do it right, the brass all fits nicely.

I have also shot some quarter inch groups with it so it makes for a pretty darned good target load as well (maybe not Dale Tubbs bench rest class but then I am not Dale T either)

As noted, check them in a chamber when you start and then down the sizing road a ways.

Also agreed fully with, if you are going to hunt with them, run each one through the rifle.
 
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I'm totally new to reloading and studying all I can.
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I could say; "Be careful" because I am not the fan of a totally new to reloading reloader jump into reloading in a dead run. I know, it's too late; I can see by all of the terms used by members it will take you 7 days to sort them out. I believe you need to decide 'either/or. You need to decide to size the case or neck size. As I said on the other forum I can get 5 different case lengths with the use of a feeler gage.

Meaning I can adjust my dies to establish clearance. I know, another new term. But I can size a case for minimum length/full length size or I can size a case for .004" clearance, or .003" clearance etc. etc.. I am the fan of cutting down on all that case travel.

F. Guffey
 
On my bottleneck cases, I full size 1st time, then put a penny between die and cartridge holder for the next 4. For my 280 Rem, I shoot a couple grains off max, so I'm just trimming after the 5th load. With belted cases, I put a nickel in after 1st loading. I'm using max loads in it, so I'm measuring at 3. One detail about Remington brass - it's softer than most, so will stretch more.
 
Average thickness of a penny
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is .075", with the die backed off from the shell holder .075" the die is adjusted on the edge if neck sizing. After that is the 'auto response' that does something like; "after 5 firings I full length sized the case back to minimum length and start over. And only I wonder why they do/say that.

A reloader should be able to measure the length of the case from the shoulder to the case head before and after firing. Those that can should be able to determine the length of the chamber from the shoulder/datum to the bolt face. When sizing a reloader should be sizing for clearance between the case and chamber; problem, a reloader can not determine where the clearance is, things like that do not drive me to the curb, when sizing I want to cut out all the case travel possible.

How do I do that? Feeler gage; rather than use a dime, nickel or quarter I use a feeler gage, I adjust the die off the shell holder with a feeler gage. If I want .003" clearance and my chamber is go-gage length I use a .003" thick feeler gage.

Back to what I do have; I have a 30/06 chamber that is .002" longer than a field reject length chamber, that means it is .016" longer than a minimum length/full length sized case or .011" longer than a go-gage length chamber.

When sizing/forming cases for that chamber I adjust the die off the shell holder .014" with a feeler gage and then use 280 Remington cases. I know the confusion caused by that but when finished I get the magic .002" clearance.

F. Guffey
 
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Is it just me or is that the clearest post ever from F.Guffy?

It actually made sense and my brain does not feel like scrambled eggs.

That may actually be something I can use, thank you Mr. Guffy.

Also thanks to GeuaxTide for getting me to read it.
 
It's worth the time to take the time to understand what Mr Guffey says. The only problem ever is that we need to be above beginner level to really understand what he says.

I neck sized for many years, and I also Partial Resized, but as the years passed and I reloaded another zillion rounds, I finally moved to what I guess you could say was either 'light Full Length Resizing' or 'heavy Partial Resizing'. It's just FL sizing to the point that I bump or reset the case shoulder by enough to allow chambering without resistance. Some of ya'll term it shoulder bumping.

I will say that I got great results from using the Lee Collet Dies, but I'd eventually have to resize the case anyway since many of my loads are near maximum, so I just decided to stick with shoulder bumping.
 
F G has also been very helpful to me, I full size only , chamber a fired case,. Measure & size to that measurement . I've Neck sized but found F/L sizing more accurate & trouble free. For bench rest shooting bolt action .001 case headspace , hunting. .003
 
There are several things that new reloaders should know.

1)Cartridges like the RUM family, also the newer Nosler cartridges like/need to be loaded to fill the casing almost completely. No reduced loads.

2)Neck sizing is fine IF, you are only loading for your rifle, and IF it is a bolt action. Pumps, lever, single shot, semi-auto should be full lenght sized.

I say these from experience.
 
RC20, F. Guffey has always made himself clear,,,,.....
Its the rest of us nimrods that get completely taken back by his methods, although I understood him from the "big inning".
He also, from what I understand is a well tooled Gunsmith, so making transfers and chamber cast comes easy for him, and I feel his favorite part of any rifle Is the chamber, from boltface to shoulder datum.
His ammunition is probably some of the best that can be shot, however its for his rifles not ours, and some of his past replies have definitely left us "wanting".

Now so if you want to bring your level up to his game, or even pass his level, try some of his techniques he's countlessly shared through the years, for me its just too easy to screw my full length die down to its locknut and yank the handle on my Lyman Orange Crusher.
 
Sorry, I will never be at his level. I am confused enough with what I got and if I tried to reach that level I would founder.

That said, I tried it and it was very close (got to get more feeler gauge home as I was down to my lowest size so I did not get the miss distance.)

Does not mean its not right, I very likely misapplied it.

Next project is to setup a Savage 7.5 chamber to match a K31 chamber.


I am doing it the Red Necked way. Fired case for NO Go and a new case for go.

Pretty sure it will work.

Wish me luck.
 
I shoot and reload for 4 8MM bolt actions. I was able to gage the chambers and was able to grade them from tightest to roomiest. I set the sizing die up for shoulder bump back on the tightest rifle. I purchased some automotive valve shims to use under the sizing die and eventually got things sorted out of which/how many shims to use under the die depending on what rifle I am loading for at the time. So far that has served me well.
 
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