Bullets to Small?

steve4102

New member
I'm working with my New Lee six cavity 40/10 175gr TC. I'm using straight WW alloy.
They are dropping at about .400 to .401. They just slide through the Lee sizing die without much if any contact. They should be larger, Yes?

Is it the mold or is it my alloy and temp? Is there a way to increase the drop size by using temp or some other technique?

I have air dropped them and water dropped them and they measure the same.

Thanks
Steve
 
Steve

Tell us exactly what you`ve done to the mold please as far as cleaning or prep steps.

What size is the sizer die ?

Alot of times the TL designs drop dead on, but 1 way to increase the dia. is to add a bit of tin & or antimony, & ya can always vary temp.

Smoking the mold heavily or using the spray mold release will take away from dia. also.

GP
 
Like my buddy asked, what size is the die? I would think .401 should be the cats meow for the 40.
 
Tell us exactly what you`ve done to the mold please as far as cleaning or prep steps.
I cleaned it with soap and water and Break-clean. I lubed it with two cycle motor oil. I have not used any of the Spray type mold release agents. The cavities are pure and clean.

What size is the sizer die ?

The Lee sizer die is sold as .401.

Alot of times the TL designs drop dead on, but 1 way to increase the dia. is to add a bit of tin & or antimony, & ya can always vary temp.
Vary Temp? My pot is at about 700* +/- and My mold is hot, but not so hot that I have frosted bullets. To increase the size should I go with a hotter alloy or a cooler one?

Smoking the mold heavily or using the spray mold release will take away from dia. also.
No smoke and no release agent.

Thanks
Steve
 
I cast at 820-850 to get full size in my alloy. Cooler is smaller, and much hotter cooks the tin in the lube grooves and they are small and round. But I get my best fill-out at 820, even though most folks don't cast that hot. Try playing with the temp. Start out cool (700) and cast as it gets hotter and keep up with which bullets were cast at what point in the heat test and see if it makes a difference. It'll only take one session to find out if heat is even a player. Good luck! :cool:
 
I cast at 820-850 to get full size in my alloy. Cooler is smaller, and much hotter cooks the tin in the lube grooves and they are small and round. But I get my best fill-out at 820, even though most folks don't cast that hot. Try playing with the temp. Start out cool (700) and cast as it gets hotter and keep up with which bullets were cast at what point in the heat test and see if it makes a difference. It'll only take one session to find out if heat is even a player. Good luck!

OK, thanks.
Is water dropping going to make a difference as far as "size"?
 
What you can also do,

Add in 4-6" of 1/8" - 95/5 solder to your full pot. Sometimes the added tin to WW will help out not only with mold fill out but with the sizes as well.

Just doing a brief look see at some referenced material, I thought I had noted a general guide to heat verses size. Well I know I read it somewhere but I can't find it now that I want too. Go figure. However, I did read the following though on this link,
Cast Bullet Notes

Tip: The size and weight of bullets of a given alloy will vary according to casting temperature. Higher temperatures will result in greater shrinkage as the bullet cools and produce a slightly smaller and lighter bullet than one cast of the same alloy at a lower temperature.

Another thing and what I was actually looking for as well was the correlation of aging verses sizes. I have that noted here somewhere as well, in all of my "put it here so you can find it stuff". But as usual I can't find it when I actually need it. :D

The jest of it remains the same though, you might give the following a try.

Set aside say 20 or so randomly picked out of the bunch, maybe pull some of the AC and WC and keep them separated. Let them sit for a week, then measure them again. Then let them sit for another week and remeasure.

They are going to grow some, but how much is often simply a guess. I have found that sizing some of my bullets within two weeks works great, some not so good, just depends on the alloy.

As a rule, now I usually just pour up pot full, let them cool, and box them up until i need them. This way IF they are going to grow, which they usually do to some extent, they have done most of it and I don't have to worry about them doing the growing AFTER I sized them.

There is a multi paged discussion or two over on Castboolits that goes into great detail on this as well. IF you look around it should be easy to find, but I cannot remember which sub forum it was in.

Give the above a try first and see where that gets you. You might try checking them after a week first, then if they are still small give adding the tin a try. Or you might pour up half a pot of straight WW alloy then add in a 2-3" piece of solder stir well and pour the other half, then compare the two after cooling and then again after a week or two.

Sometimes with straight WW the temp is what matters most, sometimes it is the mold. Sort of like saying, hey just dump in 52grs of X powder and seat to Y OAL and it will shoot little clover leaf groups. It might work great in 3 guns out of a thousand, and the fellow who said it had one of those guns.

Hope this helps.
 
Yes, it helps a lot, Thanks.

I have a roll of 95/5 solder and I will give that a try along with the other suggestions.

I also have about 30lbs of Monotype half pound ingots. Would adding some of these to the mix do the same as adding pure solder, or will the increase in Antimony make them to hard?
 
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Monotype is only 9% tin, so..... I really don't know.

I fully agree with higher temperatures resulting in greater shrinkage, but I think my results come from better fill-out at higher temps. So I believe I gain more from getting a perfect fill than from the extra heat. I think you would want your mold very hot (= larger cavity) and your alloy on the cooler side (more dense) and if you could get complete fill of all the grooves at this combination, the result would be the biggest bullet capable from that mold.

I'm not experienced enough yet to get complete fill with lower temp alloy yet, so I just get the whole mess really hot! :o

Some of the experienced gurus of lead on other casting forums claim that the perfect temperature is 100 degrees above liquidus of whatever alloy that you are using (that would mean casting at 650 to 675 for wheelweights), and that your mold should be really hot to start with, and that would go along with the hotter mold/cooler alloy concept.:)

*research more about how hot a mold should be. Some molds can be damaged (warped) if you get really overboard with the heat.
 
The closer your alloy is to pure lead, the more shrinkage you will see as a result.

Alloy/mold temp plays a small part as well, but the most significant differences in diameter as dropped from the mold will result from 'beagling' your mold or increasing the amount of tin/antimony in your alloy.

When I first started casting for my Marlin 30-30, I began with the cheap Lee 309-170 mold and range scrap. The resulting projectiles (whether air-cooled or water dropped) were .309 to .3095 at most & resulted in mediocre performance in the micro-grooved rifling. Fast forward to my most recent round using the same mold, roughly the same casting temps, same range scrap as the base alloy & added a small amount of linotype alloy; now seeing diameters of ~.310 to ~.311 right from the mold, with a small but corresponding increase in strength/hardness & accuracy.

Los Angeles Silhouette Club
(Specifically THIS page about the relationship between alloy content & bullet weight/shrinkage) [EDIT - this is the same link 'Mike/TX' provided earlier - its a good reference!]

If you haven't already, I'd highly recommend visiting the 'Cast Boolits' site as well, as there is a wealth of information to be found on this & all other casting-related topics.
 
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