Bullet X-Rayed

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richzx12

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X-Ray Bullet in Human Body to determine caliber

Can a bullet lodged in a human body (near spine) be x-rayed to determine caliber or weight.

Story Setup:

Victim inside garage is shot by bad guy from outside garage door using an AK type 7.62 caliber weapon.
Victim is hit and goes down with bullet lodged near spine.

Police arrive and bad guy points AK at police who open fire and hit bad guy taking him down (not dead).

ISSUE: bad guy's lawyer is stating bullet(s) in victim is from police gunfire not his client.

QUESTION: Is there a way to x-ray victim and bullet to determine caliber of bullet or at least bullet weight to prove bullet came from AK 7.62 and not police 9mm or .40.

Appreciate any comments or input. This is a true story getting ready to be presented in court and to a jury.

TIA - Please reply to: Richard - rmg@deltanet.com
 
The bullet profile will be different - the things are shaped differently. Pull a bullet from an AK-47 case, and pull a bullet from a 9mm case, and compare 'em to the X-ray image.
 
Depending on bullet type, the AK may not have expanded, especially if it's an FMJ bullet from a surplus round. The 9mm may or may not have, again, depending on it's construction. As for determining bullet size in the x-ray, why not x-ray one or both of the suspect unfired rounds with the same x-ray machine at the same distance and exposure settings (since the defendant probably won't submit to another x-ray for the sake of evidence), and use a simple vernier caliper to make a comparison between both x-ray films? Even if there is bullet expansion, perhaps the bullet base is intact enough to make a measurement between .310" and .355"...
 
Gewehr98 has it. Same model, preferably same machine, same distance.

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Sam I am, grn egs n packin

Nikita Khrushchev predicted confidently in a speech in Bucharest, Rumania on June 19, 1962 that: " The United States will eventually fly the Communist Red Flag...the American people will hoist it themselves."
 
It is the victim with the bullet they wish to show that is from a 7.62*39 not the defendant.

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"If there be treachery, let there be jihad."
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Those are two very different bullet shapes.
You wont need Massad to come testify as an expert witness on that one.

Thats one retarded defense.
 
Speaking as a Radiographer who has worked in a Level 1 Trauma Center and having seen many GSW's the answer to your question is 'no',not accurately. SWAG (scientific wild ass guess) works to a degree but a problem not mentioned from the previous replies is magnification. The farther an object is from the cassette/film the more it will magnify. The closer the tube is to the object or subject the more magnification there is. Usually the EMS team or police will police up an area where a shooting took place so sometimes brass is brought in to answer the question as to caliber.
 
Would Ultrasound give a better image than X-Ray? It can tell a boy from a girl in the womb, and the evidence in that question is about the size of a bullet.
 
I would guess that a CAT/MRI scan could produce a 3D image from which you could analyze the bullet. Once 3D image is generated a semi accurate guess as to weight can be made. Seems like a very thin defense to me though.

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"Liberty is never unalienable; it must be redeemed regularly with the blood of patriots or it always vanishes."
-R.A. Heinlein
 
I would think that a 7.62 would be very close in weight to a 9mm or .40. If it hasn't expanded too much, you could certainly tell from the shape.

The fact that any of those bullets probably lost some material elsewhere in the body makes a mass distinction almost impossible.

The best bet would be a ballistics expert who could tell where the bullet was fired from based on the your friend's position and the position of the bag guy and the cops. Deformation of handgun vs. rifle bullets should be possible too.

Hmmm, I'm VERY surprised that an AK round wouldn't make two holes in a person. It seems almost impossible without making scrambled eggs of his innards by bouncing around his rib cage. A ricochet, perhaps?
 
Why can't they operate and remove the bullet?

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It is incredible amount of information that can be found thru Ultrasound but not this kind, not the detail needed (looks like tv static to me). As far as CT, because of density of metals, x-rays are refracted and show up as scatter on the images (big degradation in image quality). As to why the bullet isn't surgically removed, it's always a benefit/risk analysis- why do something that has the potential to cause more harm than do good. Huge percentage of the time bullets are left in.

[This message has been edited by GgnubrKihn (edited October 10, 2000).]
 
I have in mind a the insertion of a surgical needle at a right angle to the radome, immediately beside the bullet/s profile. The needle will be of a known diameter and length, as well as opaque to radiation. One could then find a coefficient of the needle to the bullet. A large needle, say 12gauge (not THAT kind of 12 gauge! :)), would be easy to compare to the bullet size, to arrive at the difference between .311 and .355 or .357. This all assumes deformation. If the bullet were an FMJ 7.62, there's just not going to be much. Few people keep their AK's and SKS's loaded with SP. I do, but I doubt that I'm even a large plurality.
 
as a radiographer for 8 years in a level 1 trauma center in the southeast U.S. i would submit that any FMJ bullet from an 7.62X39 round will have a vastly different profile from ANY handgun round i have ever seen. there are not many structures in the human body that will distort a steel case FMJ. i am not supprised that a bullet was retained in the victim's body. depending on the distance ect. the 7.62 is not a very high powered round and if the bullet hits the dense muscle around the spine it can be slowed way down.
i have made a hobby of guessing caliber and type of bullet over the years from looking at radiographs of gunshot victims both from the morgue and the E.D. over time i have developed what i would call a REASONABLE expertese at this. however, as the other X-ray tech pointed out it is scientific guess work not measureing with a ruler or caliber. the siloutte or outline of the bullet seen in profile would do more to solve this case than the actual measurements on x-ray. a simple AP and lateral of the spine should do the trick with the patient posistioned to place the bullet as close to the film as possible.

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