bullet weight and terminal ballistics

S

sthomper

New member
speer claims they sell a 270g 44mag that travels at 1250fps -- energy at 937ftlbs...i dont know if the info is true or not.

they also claim a 210g 44mag at 1450fps and 980ftlbs energy.

does the heaver, slower bullet offer any terminal advantage if the energies were equivalent???

would there be any reason to choose a heavier , slower bullet to a lighter ,faster one with equivalent energy.....on the terminal end??? would bone for instance stop or deflect the lighter, faster bullet easier in some way????
 
if no difference on the terminal end, would equivalent energies between light/faster and heavier/slower cartridges/bullets produce a noticble difference on recoil at the firing end???

would the slower/heavier bullet (though with equivalent energy as a faster/lighter bullet) give less recoil because it exits the barrel at a slower speed?

is there a calculatable physical relationship that would make a difference??
 
You can plug in the numbers here to calculate recoil.

http://www.handloads.com/calc/recoil.asp

You would need to look up the powder charges to get the velocities. Here is a source.

http://hodgdon.com/

Look up the weight of the gun in question and plug in the numbers.


Just guessing, I'd bet on the lighter, faster bullet having slightly more recoil, but you'll just have to plug in the numbers and see.

Generally speaking the heavier bullet will provide greater penetration if you were using that load to hunt large game, of for SD from large predators. The lighter, faster bullet would probably be a better choice for SD from humans, or smaller game such as deer. The lighter bullet will expand more rapidly, but not penetrate nearly as deep as the heavy bullet. Both are good, but are designed for different tasks.
 
does the heaver, slower bullet offer any terminal advantage if the energies were equivalent???
Click to expand...
Yes it's called momentum.
using energy alone is a poor way to compare different loads.
 
Recoil actually has two components: WEIGHT & VELOCITY. Usually, most people feel recoil as being sharper and less comfortable when the velocity is higher. Heavy and slower is more of a "push" than a "punch." Of course, heavy and fast is the worst of all!

With the Speer bullets (I load and use both) the 210 gr .429 is a hollow point, while the 270 gr. is a soft point, and has a bonded jacket to reduce frangibility. This, in addition to it's heavier weight and higher sectional density, causes it to penetrate deeper than the lighter slug.

+1 on jmr40's description of the uses for these two bullets. In the 44s, the 180-210 grainers are for self defense, the 220-250 grain bullets are for all around use and medium game hunting, while the 260 + bullets are for heavier game hunting. At handgun velocities, the 270 Speer Deep Curl bullet should give excellent penetration on even large game.
 
Sthomper:

Just because a bullet is light for its caliber doesn't mean that bone will deflect it. I shot a boar with my Smith 625, .45 acp using Hornaday's 200 grain XTP loaded to 1020 fps. The bullet traveled about ten or twelve inches diagonally through the neck. It took out three inches of neck bone on its way to lodge behind the jaw bone and behind the ear on the off side. There was no deflection of the bullet. I was hunting with dogs and the shot was at point blank range.

Semper Fi.

Gunnery sergeant
Clifford L. Hughes
USMC Retired
 
Just because a bullet is light for its caliber doesn't mean that bone will deflect it........

you may be right...i was asking, if there was any advantage on the terminal end, with equivalent energies, and to clear this up, same bullet construction, does heavier/slower offer any advantage of ligher/faster. someone earlier said momentum of the same-energy heavier/slower bullet may offer some adavantge.

does such a bullet posses more momentum?? if so, is greater momentum more
beneficial??
 
.........Recoil actually has two components: WEIGHT & VELOCITY. Usually, most people feel recoil as being sharper and less comfortable when the velocity is higher. Heavy and slower is more of a "push" than a "punch." ............

do they feel more recoil becasue there actually is more recoil???


thanks for the reply.

you may be right on this. i will have to test that somehow
 
Just guessing, I'd bet on the lighter, faster bullet having slightly more recoil, but you'll just have to plug in the numbers and see...........


i dont know if an online calculator in that case is accurate or not.


but when i said equivalent energies or light/fast and heavier/slower i also mean same gun and bullet construction.
 
.........Yes it's called momentum.
using energy alone is a poor way to compare different loads. ..........


is momentum apart from kinetic energy in some way???


ie 125g at 1400fps is 544ftlbs.........147g at 1291fps is 544ftlbs.


what would the momentum of each be....if you know this readily, that is.

if the 147g has more momentum and is different from KE would greater momentum be an advantage on teh termonal end??

doeas gravity have some additional effect on the heavier/slower same energy bullet to offset the momentum in some way???
 
In the case listed in the initial post, assuming similar powder charges, the heavier bullet load will have more momentum and therefore more recoil.

In general, all else being equal, more momentum will result in deeper penetration, but I wouldn't expect either of those loads to be lacking in terms of penetration.

If you assume similar powder charge weights, you can compare two loads to see which has more momentum by simply multiplying the bullet weight by the muzzle velocity.

The load with the larger product has more momentum.
 
The general equation for energy is mass*velocity squared, while momentum is just mass*velocity. So a heavier bullet going slower may have more momentum than a lighter bullet going fast but with identical energy, depending on exactly how much heavier it is. Since momentum is the trait that says how much force must be exerted on an object for it to move or stop moving (or slow down), in theory, more momentum could yield greater penetration than less momentum given equal or similar kinetic energy.

As stated before, this means that the different bullets have different prime applications. Heavier bullets are good for hunting medium/large game, while the lighter bullets or heavy bullets going considerably slower (less Kinetic energy) might be better for SD, because you'll have less over-penetration (although probably still a risk using 44 mag).

It all comes down to application. For hunting, a heavier bullet could offer benefits over a lighter one due to greater penetration assuming similar energy levels and bullet construction. However, when dealing with humans, the benefits of more penetration in a round as powerful as 44mag may be practically irrelevant (or even detrimental).
 
a 125 gr .357 has shown many times, to be more effective than a 158 gr.

And, there have been a lot of people killed with .22's and .25's.

I doubt it's a big enough factor to matter one way or the other, vs all of the other variables. If you don't hit what you aim at, none of them will matter.
 
One thing to keep in mind when talking about recoil is that there is a difference in actual recoil and felt recoil. The actual recoil has to equal the momentum of the bullet (plus propellants). However, many factors will vary how the recoil feels to the shooter.

The most obvious is the weight of the gun. A heavier gun "absorbs" some of the momentum. A less obvious factor is the ergonomics of the gun. A gun that allows for a grip higher in relation to the barrel will usually result in less felt recoil because more of the momentum is coming straight back into the hand and arm of the shooter rather than torquing the barrel up as much.

A lighter, faster bullet may also have more felt recoil than a slower, heavier bullet even though it has less momentum due to a concept called impulse. It simply means the same force applied over a shorter period of time will result in a greater impulse.
 
If I remember right...

Elmer Keith said in one of his books:
Give me a 45 caliber
1,000 feet a second
and it makes an excellent man stopper.
 
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