Bullet Striking sideways in brand new USP9???!!! what's going on?!

N

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Hello, everyone! :)

FINALLY, i got to test my newly acquired usp9 full size at the range last Saturday. Shot 50 rnds 147 gr Fiocchi JHPs, 50 rnds 115 gr Fiocchi JHPs, and 100 rnds of Armscor 125gr FMJs with no problems at all. Needless to say, the gun is much more accurate than I, but at ten meters, I was able to pepper the 9 and 10 rings very consistently.

I have also brought along 100 rnds of newly reloaded ammo which I ordered from a very reputable gunstore. Since i was made aware (here at TFL) that polygonal barrels may have a hard time digesting unjacketed lead, i had these reloads fitted with copper plated bullets instead.

When i tried the first five of these reloads, i was hitting all over the target, with the third shot miraculously hitting the bullseye. And from where i was at, i could see that the paper tear was nowhere near circular. A closer examination of the holes revealed that all five slugs impacted the target sideways consistently, pointing at the 8 o'clock position. "WELL, GADDAM SADDAM!! WHAT IS THIS?!" i was telling myself, rather dissapointed at my gun's inability to shoot :( , which i believe in all honesty, carefully reloaded ammo. I certainly could not go on using expensive factory ammo for plinking/ practice.

With my range session shortened by this freak occurrence, i took the time to disassemble the gun to inspect the barrel. Aside from the slight powder marks around the feedramp, the bore was pretty clean. No leading, no nothing. Really made me wonder...

Could anyone please comment on what happened here? Also, any advise on reloading that i could tell to my supplier so that their product would be more reliable is most welcome...

Regards,

a dissapointed New_comer :(
 
Reputable or not, still sounds like crappy reloads...Try another. I tested my USPs with reloaded, unjacketed ammo without any kind of accuracy problem on 25m. Polygonal barrels can shoot lead IF the bullet is hard enough and it has the proper diameter...

If the bullet is undersized the polygonal rifling won't work properly because of the rounded lands/grooves.
 
New_cumer,

I don't know exactly why this is happening, but I've had the same experience. I load up most of my practice 9s with 115 grain West Coast Plated Bullets. They shoot fantastically out of my Witness, CZ75, and my wife's Walther P99 (all standard rifling). However, out of my Glock 26 and my USP9 compact, they are atrocious. I see no rhyme nor reason to how the bullets impact. My groups are more like patterns, and the bullet holes aren't round and concentric.

Next time, tell your boys to load em up with some cheap FMJs.
 
New_cumer - also if you are just hanging a piece of paper off the target holder - there is no real way to be sure of what the round is doing. Shoot a new piece of carboard - it will not distort.
 
I'm not up with the technical aspects of the pistol, but it could be many things. You may have a screwed up rifling job. The rifling may not be set up for heavy bullets. The heavier (actually longer) the bullet, the faster the twist rate must be for stabilization. Velocity could also affect this to a lesser degree. You may also have a misaligned crown or a have a nick in the crown that is causing yaw. Try some hotter 147's and see how they work. If it's still bad go to a lighter bullet. If that doesn't do it, then you have a problem with either a bad rifling job or a missaligned/marred crown.
 
Brasso,

I would hesitate to point that out as the cause since he is firing jacketed bullets with no problems (although you may very well be correct). My 2 cents. . .

Shake
 
I know. I know!!!

Okay. I have the same gun and just got through shooting a batch of plated hollowpoints out of it and about 10% were heyholing, so I went home and backed off from 4.5gr of Titegroup to 4.2 and 7% were keyholing. Then I backed down to 4.0gr and I've been getting beautiful groups.

It seems that at a certain velocity the USP barrel is ripping through the rather thin plating on the bullets and making some of them tumble. Jacketed bullets don't have this problem. You should either stick with jacketed bullets (not plated) or shoot plated bullets at a lower velocity.

Your gun is fine.
 
Shake's announcer voice:

Mikul. . Mikul , you win a new. . . Ok, so you don't win anything. Nice call though.

Shake
 
I had the same problem shooting plated ammo through a Glock 17 with a similar barrel design. The lead bullet was shoting through the plating, causing the keyholing. I knew this because fragments of plating were imbedding in the sound baffels above the firing line in the indoor range.

Switch to FMJs and the problem will go away.
 
Absolom,

"I get 2000 Rem. jhp's for around $75 from Midway."

Is that MidwayUSA.com? If not, do you have a URL or address for Midway?
 
Thanks to all!:)


if you are just hanging a piece of paper off the target holder - there is no real way to be sure of what the round is doing
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I taped the paper targets onto the firm target boards, so they're quite stable during the test.

You should either stick with jacketed bullets (not plated) or shoot plated bullets at a lower velocity
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I'll tell this to my ammo supplier and see what he could give me. I have a gut feel that this could be the solution I'm looking for. The only concern would be finding the proper strenght of the charge that would be enough to cycle the rounds reliably. I'll also try looking for FMJ slugs to use instead, just in case the first approach doesn't work. Thanks again! :D

Best,

A revitalized New_Comer:cool:
 
Plated vs. Jacketed

It sounds like we have confusion here on some terms.

Copper plated lead bullets have a very thin copper coating over the lead. They are no harder than lead and react to the rifling the same way. Copper plated bullets are used mainly to reduce or eliminate barrel leading; they are not jacketed bullets. Some .22 LR bullets are copper plated.

Jacketed bullets have a heavy jacket of copper, gilding metal, soft steel, or some other material. The jacket is thick and hard and reacts to the rifling itself; the inner core material is pretty much irrelevant.

The reloader was not deceiving you or turning out an inferior product; he was using copper plated bullets, which are perfectly all right except in those few guns which must have jacketed bullets for proper accuracy.

Jim
 
The load I'm using to shoot plated rounds is well above the minimum necessary to cycle the action on my USP9c, so it isn't too much of a balancing act.

Hodgdon gives 4.4gr of Titegroup as the maximum load, and I've found 4.0gr to be effective with Berry's plated rounds. That's only 10% below max or what is generally considered the starting load.
 
I am loading and shooting that exact combination. 4.0 gr hodgdon titegroup, with a berry's 124gr plated bullet. I shoot it out of my G-26 glock (polygonal rifling) and my Berretta 92 compact.
I get excellent accuracy from both guns with this load and no keyholing.

There are a couple of folks at my club who have USPs and shoot hardcast lead and claim no fouling problems. Both my 9mms foul with hardcast lead, but shoot well with no fouling with the Berry's plated bullets.

I would try slugging that HK barrel and see if it is out of spec.

you may also wnat to try measuring the bullets with a dial caliper first to see if they are .355 or .356.
 
It would seem to me that a keyholing bullet would make an interesting wound, maybe more effective than one that drilled through nose-on. Are you sure there is a problem?

Seriously, a poly rifled bbl will lead up and might result in one of the much ballyhooed kBs. With S&B factory 9mm ammo costing around $5 or $6 a box, it's ain't worth it to wreck your gun shooting lead or plated lead reloads. JM 2c
 
It would seem to me that a keyholing bullet would make an interesting wound, maybe more effective than one that drilled through nose-on.
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Yes, it would. The entry wound would be a nearly rectangular hole about 9mm x 15mm, bigger than a .50AE hole!:eek: But i doubt if the slug could penetrate as deeply as a regular bullet, due to the lighter weight and tumbling action. Besides, I would be very lucky to hit a moving target even at a five yards distance with the erratic way the slugs are flying out of the barrel!
The load I'm using to shoot plated rounds is well above the minimum necessary to cycle the action on my USP9c, so it isn't too much of a balancing act.
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I'll mention the reloading specs you suggested to my ammo supplier, and see if he could replicate it. Also, I believe i heard him say that they currently use Vita vouri powders. Would this be any different?

Thanks again,

New_comer :)
 
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