Bullet setback

S

southjk

New member
I bought a bunch of rounds from Freedommunitions.com earlier in the year and have had a few rounds with some pretty serious set back. I've bought their remanufactured rounds and their new ones and have had various problems with their reloads but none with their new. I've had about 5 failure to fire and a bunch of failure to chamber but I think I've narrowed that down to one magazine on my M&P and only when using the hollow points. But, I seem to be seeing quite a few of these with some significant set back. I think the first few I found with setback I shot them with no issues but I've since learned that it could cause problems so I set them aside now. This has been over the course of about 2000 rounds of 9mm reloads both LRN and HP.

Is this common for commercial reloads or is this a Freedommunitions problem? Should I contact them about the setback problem I'm seeing? In the image, I found two in one box and two in the next. The one on the right is fine and just there for comparison.

10672427393_f33ed9e56f.jpg
 
Bullet setback usually causes no problem when fired, nine times out of ten. But if there is enough neck tension in the case, and the powder charge is just right, excessive pressures can be reached. Again this may not damage your gun, but then it could detonate and rupture the barrel.

If you can pull the bullet foreward with your fingers, O.K. If not, I'd either pull the bullets or set these aside for someone who has a bullet puller and break down the rounds.

Loss of a few rounds is cheap compared to what might happen.

Bob Wright
 
The setback on those rounds is severe in my opinion. I would be afraid to fire those due to high pressure caused by such a severe setback. It is a hazard about to happen.

They either do not have their bullet seating die adjusted for the proper OAL or they are not using a crimping die for proper tension to hold the bullet in place in the casing. Assuming those round came this way out of the box, I would say the seating die.

Where is their quality assurance? You need to send that picture to the source of those reloads.
 
Could it have happened during shipping? These rounds are shipped in the box loose so could the jostling around have bumped them in? I think they had a period during the panic where they were out of the plastic holders and have just been shipping them loose.
 
I agree with lamarw, the setback on those bullets is pretty severe. Personally I would send that picture to them and see what they can do about it. Also, are these setback bullets before they have even been chambered? If so shame on them for packing those up and shipping them off.
 
Freedommunitions setback

I would like to hear what you find out from them. I was getting ready to order from them in a week or two, but now I'm alittle concerned...
 
you found those rounds that way, in the box, you never chambered them, right?

If so, the HELL YESS contact the maker!
Send them the picture, give them lot# and any other information they want, and prepare to ship them back. I think the company will want them...

This isn't just a QC issue, this is a liability issue as well.
 
I'd be on the phone to 'em - if it happes to you, it will happen to others . . . some who may not be aware of increased pressure with the set back. It shouldn't be that way . . . I'm guessing the crimp isn't enough and they need to be looking at that.
 
Could it have happened during shipping? These rounds are shipped in the box loose so could the jostling around have bumped them in?
Click to expand...

No, that didn't happen during shipping. I tumble mine in a rotary tumbler after loading and have no setback what so ever. It should take around 35lb of pressure to make the bullet move. You shouldn't be able to move them with your fingers at all.

The person that loaded those didn't know what he was doing, pure and simple.

One more reason why I'm glad I load all my own ammo.

I would return those and demand my money back, there is no way I would shoot them but what Bob Wright said is correct, but I would still send them back so the company knows there is a problem.

Some other customer who doesn't know enough to ask may have an un-necessary accident from the idiot that loaded these.

If they are in business to sell them they have to make them correctly. If not they don't deserve to be in business.
 
Hi, Bob Wright,

You are usually spot on and correct, so on this I wonder if you actually experienced a kaboom caused by bullet setback or investigated a case and know that is what happened.

I have never been able to determine if bullet setback is really a danger; my own experiments indicate it is not. But I am willing to be educated if someone can say they were able to positively confirm such an occurrence or were able to duplicate it in controlled tests. I know that it is common for long bullets to be seated deeply where the COAL is limited (as in an 8mm Mauser converted to .30-'06) and I have never heard of that causing a problem.

Jim
 
Bullet setback usually causes no problem when fired, nine times out of ten. But if there is enough neck tension in the case, and the powder charge is just right, excessive pressures can be reached. Again this may not damage your gun, but then it could detonate and rupture the barrel.
Click to expand...
Setback of 1/10 of an inch in a .40cal pistol can double the chamber pressure.
Glock had Hirtenberg Ammunition Company of Austria test it.
So - yes - set back can be a substancial risk.

Neck tension and/or crimp have nothing to do with the pressure of a round.
A common misconception.
The inertia of the bullet is what causes the pressure to build.

The crimp (neck tension) is there simply to keep the bullet in place.
 
I emailed their customer service contact yesterday so when/if I hear anything from them I'll let you know here.
 
Hal
Senior Member

Join Date: October 9, 1998
Location: Ohio USA
Posts: 7,009

Quote:
Bullet setback usually causes no problem when fired, nine times out of ten. But if there is enough neck tension in the case, and the powder charge is just right, excessive pressures can be reached. Again this may not damage your gun, but then it could detonate and rupture the barrel.
Click to expand...
Setback of 1/10 of an inch in a .40cal pistol can double the chamber pressure.
Glock had Hirtenberg Ammunition Company of Austria test it.
So - yes - set back can be a substancial risk.
Click to expand...
...
Click to expand...

That is very interesting could you site a source for this? I would be interested to see what the findings were.

Thanks in advance!
 
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jglsprings wrote: That is very interesting could you site a source for this? I would be interested to see what the findings were.
Click to expand...

I was curious as well, so did a bit of poking around. If you do a Google search on "Hirtenberger ammunition bullet setback" (not Hirtenberg) you'll get all kind of hits mentioning the same testing for Glock, apparently first reported here, as well as some mentions of a similar study done for CCI using 9mm ammo, but I couldn't find any links to the actual report from Hirtenberger.
 
robhof

Pressure spikes with set back is powder specific, powders that are compressible, will have much less of a problem than the faster burning powders that are usually used in auto's. I wouldn't fire the rounds pictured. There's also the chance of the bullet canting some from the long drive out of the case and striking the forcing cone at a higher than usual velocity.:eek:
 
"the bullet canting some from the long drive out of the case and striking the forcing cone at a higher than usual velocity"

I am not clear on this; it sounds more like a concern with a revolver than with an auto pistol in which even a setback bullet is pretty much at the rifling leade to begin with, so there is no "long drive" and no forcing cone as such.

On the setback, I have never said that bullet setback absolutely will never cause pressure increases. I have said that I have personally tested several brands of 9mm ammo and deliberately set the bullets back far more than any repeated chambering could do (to the point of case bulging) and there were no signs of severe pressure increases; the guns did not blow up and I, obviously, was not killed, or at least I don't think I was.

So the idea that someone said that someone reported that a setback of such and such distance will always cause the gun to blow up is just not true.

Jim
 
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