Bullet mod?

T

Tankerwolf

Inactive
I guess it would be best to start my first post with a thank you to all the folks that post great information day after day. Between your posts and Google I find it hard to reasonably ask anything. I have however come across a question that I unfortunately do not have the time to research and thought that maybe somebody else had this crazy idea and could provide an answer.
I know that some of the older model (and some of the new) “short” 1911’s (specifically a Colt lightweight officers ACP) have feeding issues with JHP. So my question is, in order to save the almighty dollar; can you shave a flat top on to cheap range ammo to replicate the feeding of a JHP and save some coin? Theoretically the mechanics would be the same right? I only ask because I have plenty of Blazer, WWB, American, Federal, etc… but not that many JHP or dollars and I would like to get a reasonable idea of the reliability of feeding this type of ammo.
(If this violates some Federal ammo modification law please delete the post immediately.)
I will obviously test, as much as the wallet will allow, the ammo I will be using as SD ammo. I would just like to replicate the feeding of a JHP round as much as I can.
Most, if not all, of you are more educated than I am when it comes to this sort of thing so don’t hold back in your response. If this is a stupid idea I really would like to know. Thank you

(as a side note let’s just assume that I have not polished the feed ramp)
 
In my opinion- this idea is really really bad mojo. If your firearm will not function with a quality JHP like Rem golden Saber, then it's safe to say that it isn't truly reliable with the ball ammo either as the bullet profile is nearly identicle except for the tip. Ah, the tip area... the very end does not touch the ramped areas anyway- that's why Golden Sabers, Gold Dots, Most Winchester SD bullets have a curved side profile (to aid in feeding).

And the most obvious. Lets say you have to shoot an attacker/aggressor with one of your doctored bullets? Exactly what are you going to tell the grandy jury at your indictment hearing? With all of the available ctg's on the market that have been functioning fine for decades, anything you come up with ain't gonna impress anybody. What kind of field day do you think the anti-gun media will have with you when they find out?

If your firearm won't feed at least some type of HD/SD ammo- then either have someone qualified/experienced do the polish job, trade the weapon off on one that IS reliable, or come to terms that even the .45 fmj is highly formidable against attackers and would be much better for you in the long run than a childishly doctored bullet.

If this is a stupid idea I really would like to know. Thank you
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To answer your question- Yes. This just about qualifies as a Terminally Borderline Felony Stupid idea IMHO.
 
That's probably something of an overstatement, but I agree that it's not a great idea.

There are options out there for guns that are picky about what they will feed--I'd look into them before trying to modify ammo to suit. Unlike anything the average gun owner could cook up, the commercial options have generally been tested pretty extensively.
 
Are there any 1911 platforms out there that won't reliably feed FMJ ball ammo? I certainly wouldn't modify a bullet for any reason.
 
You are both misunderstanding and grossly misstating the problem. A great many (in fact, most) current and recent 1911s have no problem at all feeding hollow-point ammunition. But ... while the bullet shape of 230-grain ball ammo is more or less the same from one brand of ammo to the next, the same canNOT be said of JHP. For example, Golden Saber has a fairly rounded ogive that, in profile, looks much like what you propose to create -- a shape akin to a FMJ bullet with the nose chopped off. Many other JHP bullets, though, have straighter sides, so looking more like truncated cones than like truncated ball ammo.

The problem has nothing to do with the length of the barrel. IF there is a feed problem with a 1911, it is usually magazine-related. A very few 1911s simply will not feed certain JHP ammo, yet will run 100% reliably on many others. Unfortunately, there's no way to know without testing. And your proposed test won't prove anything, because it won't accurately replicate the shape of most JHP bullets.

My suggestion would be to try Golden Sabers. Virtually all 1911s will feed Golden Sabers reliably. A box holds 25 rounds, where most others are only 20, so it's a bit less expensive than many of the others. And, both Winchester USA and Remington UMC offer 50-round boxes of "generic" JHP self-defense loads that have the same bullet shape, so you can find some of that to use for practice and to prove reliability if you absolutely can't afford a couple of boxes of Golden Saber.
 
If you look at ramp angle on a 3 inch there is a major difference to 4 or 5 inch and many of those can be fussy about ammo.

Another vote for finding real ammo that works in you gun.
 
No

No don't do that, Bullet jackets start out as a flat disk and are punched into a cup shape then the lead core is added after that the cup and core are pushed into a die that shapes the bullet. This gives us a bullet that is either an open tip or open base. If you took a closed tip fmj type bullet and shaved off the tip to make an open tip expanding bullet it is now open at both ends and could "blow threw" in other words the lead core could shoot out and leave the jacket behind in the barrel. Buy the right kind of bullet. Consider casting to your own to save $$ and spend the rest of your life looking for wheel weights every time you walk across a parking lot.
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I hope you won't take this the wrong way...

I wouldn't try that. Especially if you have no reloading experience. I am not sure how you planned on flattening the nose of the rounds but your personal safety immediately springs to mind.
 
Thank you.

Thank you all for your responses. I would never consider using a bullet that I modified like that for self defense. I’m not that crazy. I was more curious about whether or not it could be done but after reading your posts I think I am better off just buying the cheapest JHP’s I find and running those. If I started getting responses like “that’s been done plenty, here’s the link” I might have given it a shot (no pun intended) but as it stands I would not even consider doing it. The cost issue is because I am really not comfortable running only 100 or so rounds of (fill in the blank) ammunition and calling it reliable and when you add up the cost of some of this SD ammo I might as well just get a new gun. Do any of the companies make a flat nosed FMJ that would somewhat replicate the cycling of a JHP?

I wasn’t even thinking about the possibility of the bullet separating in the barrel. That would make for a pretty exciting second shot. (ouch)

I would love to be able to reload my own. The only thing is I have neither the space nor the familial support to start bringing that stuff in the house. “and here is our playroom / reload room”
 
People do things differently but if I'm testing a new gun thats going to be my ccw I'll usually run 500 or so rounds of FMJ. If gun cycles that, then I'll run 100rds of my choosen SD ammo, using mags I'm going to carry.

If all this cycles, I call it a day.

Yes, many ammo companies produce FNFMJ ammo.
 
shortwave said:
Yes, many ammo companies produce FNFMJ ammo.
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In certain calibers ... mostly for revolvers. I have never seen a FNFMJ round in .45 Automatic. And most (if not all) the flat-nose rounds I've seen had bullets that were more like a truncated cone than the rounded ogive of a .45 Auto 230gr FMJ bullet.
 
"....can you shave a flat top on to cheap range ammo to replicate the feeding of a JHP and save some coin? "

To see if they will feed in your short barreled 1911? Certainly possible, but wouldn't necessarily be a good copy of a factory JHP, so you are defeating the purpose. Best to leave it alone.

Not to worry tho, the 45 ACP in original fmj form is a proven stopper. Just shoot accurately. And coming out of a 3" barrel over-penetration concerns are reduced.

In the Argonne during WW1 an American corporal attacked an enemy position, charged a distance of 25 yards, firing his 45 ACP Colt 1911, stopping 7 enemy soldiers in 6 seconds . On Iwo Jima during WW2, there were several incidents where Marines went up against enemy attackers swinging Samurai swords. A threat does not get any deadlier.

If a Samurai can be stopped by a standard 45 ACP cartridge, that's all I need to know.

Only concern is reliability, and yes 3" barreled 1911s are more finicky than your 5" gov't. But if you buy from a reputable manufacturer: Colt, Kimber, S&W, or Springfield Armory - and it doesn't work right, they will not only fix it, but pay the freight both ways (they also have free 1-800 phone service).

I carry a 3" 1911, was shooting it this morning, outstanding accuracy, the more I shoot it, the more I like it. Superb CCW.
 

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DaleA,

Hornady also offers the FMJFP in 10MM.

I have never seen a FNFMJ round in .45 Automatic.
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AB,
Along with the FMJFP DaleA pointed out...


These would be the truncated:
Speer makes one in .45 ACP. The Lawman. Its actually called TMJ FN.

If I'm not mistaken I've also seen the same in 9mm and 45GAP.

...I've seen had bullets that were more like a truncated cone than rounded
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I agree. Truncated, metal jacket with a flat nose
 
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Thank you again.

Thank you again for the great responses. I think however that there may be some confusion as to what I want this information for. I am by no means asking about this for use as SD ammo. Once it leaves the barrel I could care less what it does.

Nitesites: Right on man. I didn’t even know this ammo existed. I have however, in my short time as a working individual, learned to avoid the “more bark than bite” names / talk; so a name like GUARD DOG makes me question whether it’s bark or bite. I will look in to it though and thank you for informing me of this type of ammo.

shortwave: I am along the same lines but am an incredible skeptic when it comes to “would you trust this with your life” type scenarios. What you are suggesting would at least let me sleep at night if I were to be carrying a handgun. That’s around my base “alright, it’s ok. to carry” limit.

Seaman: First off let me say thank you for your service; 20 years is a sacrifice most people are not willing to make. I could write an entire paper on your response but for the sake of time, and the fact that I am writing papers for my own degree, let me paraphrase.

“but wouldn't necessarily be a good copy of a factory JHP”: To say that I am anally retentive about details would be an understatement. I would, to the best of my ability, try to replicate the exact dimensions of the SD round I would be using (not using my replication for SD of course). After the recent responses, and the thought of the lead shooting through the copper, I have all but forgotten the idea of trying that.

“7 enemy soldiers in 6 seconds” That just proves what I have been silently bit&*%ng about while reading most of the online posts here and there. Practice, practice, practice, and a fundamental understanding of what you have to work with will subdue any new “technology” that one may come across. I guarantee that the soldier that did that didn’t just “qualify” with his 1911.

“On Iwo Jima during WW2, there were several incidents where Marines went up against enemy attackers swinging Samurai swords. A threat does not get any deadlier.”

Unfortunately the Samurai came up against what is called a horizontal asymptote that the Marines obviously had a greater value. “don’t bring a knife to a gunfight”; oops, if only they had known. I absolutely love the concept of the Samurai. They really did nail it. The concepts still hold true today. Train to be the best at what you have to work with. It’s not what you have but how well you know how to use what you have.

“But if you buy from a reputable manufacturer: Colt, Kimber, S&W, or Springfield Armory - and it doesn't work right, they will not only fix it, but pay the freight both ways (they also have free 1-800 phone service).”

I have fortunately been passed down a Colt light weight officers 45 that has had some really great mod’s done on it. (Heine, Chip McCormick, Wilson etc…) I think at this point factory warranty is negligible.
“the more I shoot it, the more I like it. Superb CCW.”

The more I look at the picture the more I like it. That is one fine looking piece of machinery you have there. Forgive my ignorance but what is it.
 
DaleA said:
Hornady lists this .45 230 grain full metal jacket flat point bullet as 'new' but IIRC 15 to 20 years ago they offered a flat point .45 bullet that they thought was going to be a great self defense round that didn't generate much interest.
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That's a bullet. Do they offer that bullet in factory-loaded ammunition? I didn't get the impression that the original poster was a reloader, I thought we were discussiong factory ammo and my responses were founded in that belief.
 
Ahoy Tankerwolf,

Have always had great respect and admiration for the Marines on Iwo Jima...long pointy sharp knives are near impossible to stop at close quarters, and the attacker doesn't need to reload, just keep hackin. It was a bad place.

After reading your post I made up a flat nose 45 ACP (see pic) by reshaping a jacketed 230 gr round nose bullet, not sure if it is more effective, would have to test in various media.

Sounds like you have an excellent customized Colt. Nothin like a Colt. It should give you a lifetime of enjoyment and just might save your bacon one day.

The 1911 pictured is a Springfield Armory 1911-A1 Micro Compact.

I see you are a new member....welcome aboard...and get back to work on that paper ! ! !
 
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