bullet for .308

S

Stats Shooter

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So Im looking for recommendations for a .308 bullet.

The rifle is a Ruger SR 762
1:10 RH twist
16.12" barrel hammer forged and chrome lined
AR-10 platform, piston driven
4x12x44 Swarovski Z3 scope

I have already made a load for it for hunting. My initial load uses CFE 223, 165 gr Sierria BTSP game kings for hunting. 2696 fps. Cold barrel it is around 1 MOA +/- .25 moa. I went hot on that load for knockdown power for when I go home and hunt mule deer that weigh sometimes 250 - 300 lbs at 300 yards. But it isn't as consistent when the barrel warms up (i think that is a function of the powder). However my plinker loads using 150 gr. fmj's and benchmark powder shoot the same hot barrel, cold barrel, hot day, cold day etc.

I would like to make a 300 - 600 yard match load. I'm thinking about the 175 grain smk using Varget since I find that varget and benchmark are the most temp stable, clean, and accurate powders I use in my semi-auto guns. Also, I have heard that the 175 grain smk's aren't as jump sensitive and I want it to fit in the magazine.

I got some good feed back on this forum when I made my 556 match load using hornady 75 grain bthp's as the final load groups about .5-..75" at 200 yards!!! So I will give it another try.
 
Mississippi said:
So Im looking for recommendations for a .308 bullet.

The rifle is a Ruger SR 762
1:10 RH twist
16.12" barrel hammer forged and chrome lined
AR-10 platform, piston driven
4x12x44 Swarovski Z3 scope

I have already made a load for it for hunting. My initial load uses CFE 223, 165 gr Sierria BTSP game kings for hunting. 2696 fps. Cold barrel it is around 1 MOA +/- .25 moa. I went hot on that load for knockdown power for when I go home and hunt mule deer that weigh sometimes 250 - 300 lbs at 300 yards. But it isn't as consistent when the barrel warms up (i think that is a function of the powder). However my plinker loads using 150 gr. fmj's and benchmark powder shoot the same hot barrel, cold barrel, hot day, cold day etc.

I would like to make a 300 - 600 yard match load. I'm thinking about the 175 grain smk using Varget since I find that varget and benchmark are the most temp stable, clean, and accurate powders I use in my semi-auto guns. Also, I have heard that the 175 grain smk's aren't as jump sensitive and I want it to fit in the magazine.

I got some good feed back on this forum when I made my 556 match load using hornady 75 grain bthp's as the final load groups about .5-..75" at 200 yards!!! So I will give it another try.
Click to expand...
Sierra makes great bullets. I haven't tried them yet, but have you tried the hornady eld's? They work fantastic for me, and they have 5 different weights for 30 caliber

Also, what powder are you making your 556 match ammo with
 
I'd look at the Nosler 190gr. They marginally stabilize in my SCAR 17S, a 1:12 twist, but will do fine in yours.
 
Thanks Tomas....I really wish I could buy like a 100 bullet variety pack and just use my favorite powder and see. I guess the next best thing is factory ammo but black hills and comparable stuff sure is expensive.
 
Mississippi, I have the exact same rifle. I am getting good results with 4064 and 4895 as well as 748 powders. I like tougher bullets and as I see from your post, you know what you will need on big western mule deer. Sierra does make some very accurate bullets, but my experience with them has shown me that they are not the #1 choice for large animals. Sure they will kill, but not as well as a bullet that holds it's weight at least 65%, which Sierra's often do not.
I use the 150-165 grain bullets and the 165 in my Ruger. I have shot various 180s and they were ok, but the 150s have proven to be more accurate in my rifle so far. I shoot Sierras for fun and practice, but when I go hunting I remove them from my magazine and load 165 gr Nosler Partitions. Same brass, powder, and primers but different bullets. Those Partitions are expensive so I don't shoot many for fun, but I have found them to be sub-MOA accurate and easy to do the load work with. So if I buy a box of 50 and I use 25 in load work, I can kill 25 animals with what I have left. 2-3 boxes of them will last your whole life for hunting. I can say the same kind of things about some of the Barnes X bullets and the new Hornady GMX will be about the same too I'd bet. And don't forget the Nosler and Hornady bonded core bullets. They hold their weight very well.

Anyway....my 2 cent worth.

For most deer and antelope any bullet that goes 10" deep will kill them even if it comes apart. But when live weight starts to get to the 225 pound range and goes up from there, I want a bullet I can depend on to expand some, but always go through, even if I have to shoot at a quartering animal, and even if that animal is an elk. If it's good for elk, big deer are not even a challenge.
 
Wyosmith,

The partition is the best hunting bullet ever made, period. If I was hunting to put food on the table, I would load partitions in my 300 Win Mag for elk and ridge to ridge mule deer. And lighter partitions in my .308 or .270 for antelope. But they sure are expensive. I will shoot up all the game kings this year just messing around and hunting with them some. But I may go back to the partition for hunting.

As for the match load, I have also found that 147 gr and 150 gr shoot very well in the Ruger sr 762, but I want to try a heavier bullet to get out to around 600 yards with it.
 
I have already made a load for it for hunting. My initial load uses CFE 223, 165 gr Sierria BTSP game kings for hunting. 2696 fps. Cold barrel it is around 1 MOA +/- .25 moa. I went hot on that load for knockdown power
Click to expand...

Yeah I'd say so . 2696fps with a 165gr bullet out of a 16" barrel smoking fast
. I can't get much more then that from a 24" barrel and 168gr bullet . I'd like to see some Quick loads data on your load . That's got to be way up there in pressure .

As for match bullets . I like to start with Hornady bullets . Why ? well it really comes down to cost . They just seem to always be on sale somewhere and shoot pretty good . I've found though that the Hornady match bullets take a tad more effort to dial in then Sierra match kings . So I agree that the SMK's seem to be less jump sensitive .
 
"...to get out to around 600 yards..." Use a 168 match bullet with IMR4064. 175's past 600. No deer hunting with match bullets period. No 600 yard hunting shots with any .308 load either. The .308 loves 165 grain hunting bullets. A 165 will kill any game in North America.
That 2696 fps doesn't equal "knockdown power". That comes with shot placement, not velocity. That velocity isn't terribly hot either. Start loads of CFE223 and a 165 run around 2649 out of a 1 in 12, 24" barrel. You won't get that out of a 16" barrel.
 
Yea,
I dont hunt with match bullets. My go to hunting bullets are game kings, nosler accubonds, and partitions. Oh, and Hornady soft points
 
I see the Hodgdon site has CFE 223 able to push bullets pretty fast indeed . Whack 8" off there 24"test barrel and I'd think you would expect 200 to 240fps less in velocity . Especially if that test barrel is fixed in a vise rather then hand held . If I were loading that combo . When my velocities past 2600fps in a 16" barrel I'd be stopping regardless of other pressure signs .

I was part of or read a thread here talking about velocity changes for every inch of material removed from the barrel . I recall the shorter the barrel got the percentage in velocity changed as well . I just don't remember if that percentage was more or less . Meaning 24" to 23" was 40fps and 17" to 16" was 25fps or vice versa . I don't recall which way that went . Either way I figured a 25 to 30fps reduction in velocity for every inch of barrel removed in my calculations above .

FWIW I'm just thinking out loud here and I'm more then willing to except my numbers are incorrect .
 
There are two separate tests posted online metal god where they cut down a .308 barrel from 26-13". Im not going to bother posting the link, a Google search will find them. The total drop from 26-13 avg. per inch was just above 20 fps. Also, the heavier bullets dropped a smaller percentage per inch than lighter bullets. In one of the tests they tracked accuracy as well and it turns out barrel length from 13-26 inches makes no difference wrt accuracy. In fact in some cases the 13" barrel was more accurate.

Anyway, my point is, 16-24" is an 8 inch difference. If the impact is indeed 20fps per inch, I'm about 25-30fps above where I "should" be according to hodgdon. Couple that with the fact that CFE is one of the highest velocity producing powders and it really isn't terribly hot.
 
For the .308 Winchester (7.62 x 51) gas guns I really am not much of a Varget fan in that I see Varget as being a little slow. The powders I like and use most would be IMR 4895, H 4895 and AA 2495 with the latter among my favorites. Out to 500 and 600 yard lines I like the Sierra 168 gr Match King HPBT #2200 bullet and beyond 600 yards I like the Sierra 175 and 180 grain HPBT Match King bullets. That said I have seen some great shooters run the Sierra 168 grain HPBT Match Kings out to 1,000 yards. Have also seen excellent results from Speer 168 grain Match #2040 bullets. My problem has always been trying to find a safe powder and load that will keep the heavier bullets super sonic out to 1,000 yards. Here nor there, inside 600 yards I like the Sierra or Speer 168 grain BTHP Match bullets over IMR 4895, H 4895 or AA 2495 with a preference for AA 2495.
 
Thanks reloadron:

My gun is gas piston. Not sure if that makes much difference relative to DI but I can also adjust the gas port to allow more/less...in fact I can set it to single shot if I want too.
Anyway, I am thinking about 600 yard max. The scope I have on it is a 600 yard scope. I think I'll try both the 168 and 175's. As for powder, I agree that Varget is a bit on the slower side. CFE will get you the velocity you want, but I find temperature sensitivity issues with it and a designated target round where you may need to fire warm barrel is no good.

Ron, do you find temp sensitivity with IMR?
 
Federal runs 4064 in its match loads for the 168 and 175 grain SMK's. Varget was originally designed to compete with 4064, but doesn't always quite match its velocities. 4166 is the temperature stable IMR entry in this burn rate range, but produces lower vleocities than either at max.


Reloadron,

I'd be interested to hear what guns you saw used with the 168's at 1,000 yards and what the conditions were. I've seen them start to tumble in the transonic range (starting at about 700 yards in standard loads) out of both .308 and 30-06 from at least a dozen different guns of varying quality, but probably all with 10" or 12" twists. It's something Bryan Litz blames on a dynamic instability in that 13° boattail design. Nonetheless, I talked to a couple of folks who did not have them destabilize heading through the transonic range and out to 1000, and I've been trying to identify the variable involved.
 
Nick, is 4166 similar to Varget?


Nvm....just looked at hodgdon burn rate chart. 4166 is faster than Varget. Varget might get better velocity
 
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Correct. Varget does get better velocity, and 4064 gets still more. When I wrote slower, I meant velocities, not burn rate. Poor choice of words, but have now edited my post. The burn rate is merely in the general range of a lot of powders used in medium power cartridges. I wouldn't be surprised if they erred a little on the faster side of burn rate because of the popularity of 223, where that might suit lighter bullets a little better.
 
Thanks reloadron:

My gun is gas piston. Not sure if that makes much difference relative to DI but I can also adjust the gas port to allow more/less...in fact I can set it to single shot if I want too.
Anyway, I am thinking about 600 yard max. The scope I have on it is a 600 yard scope. I think I'll try both the 168 and 175's. As for powder, I agree that Varget is a bit on the slower side. CFE will get you the velocity you want, but I find temperature sensitivity issues with it and a designated target round where you may need to fire warm barrel is no good.

Ron, do you find temp sensitivity with IMR?
Click to expand...

Do I find temperature sensitivity with IMR? No, not really not enough to matter much. While they do say that powders like IMR 4064 and IMR 4895 are temperature sensitive it sort of becomes a matter of how sensitive? With ammunition and loads I have worked up in 70 degree F weather I have shot the loads in 30 degree to 80 degree weather (ammunition temperature) and saw no real difference in load performance.

While it has been awhile since I enjoyed a 500 or more yard line I was always comfortable with the 168 grain Match King, I also like the 175 grain Match King. Again, I really liked AA 2495 but it really becomes which powder and load serves you best.

Ron
 
Thanks guys

I put some simulation loads in my target program. It says that essentially if you get max velocity out of the 168 smk you will remain super sonic beyond 1000 yards. However, I'm sure in practice it may be lower....and it is barely super sonic at around 1200 fps. However the 175 grain smk at about 200 fps below hodgdon's Varget max stays well above 1132 fps beyond 1000 yards. I think I will try both the 168 and 175 grain smk. I'll see what I get. This is not a 1k yard gun setup right now. Like I said it is a 600 yard gun. So supersonic beyond 1k isn't necessary
 
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