Bullet deflected by rain?

K

kerth

New member
Anyone else ever noticed this, or am I all wet? I was shooting targets of opportunity in the woods yesterday, weather was drizzle/rain/drizzle, with my .22 WMR rifle. When there was little rain I could reliably hit a soda can out to 150 yrds, but when the rain came down hard I couldn't hit a can beyond 50 yrds or so, when the rain let up, 150 yrd cans again. Just to experiment I went to the house, got my 30-'06 (165 gr Rem SP), and waited for the rain. The 30-'06 accuracy appeared to be independent of the rain. I think the water drops were to deflecting the 40 gr .22 bullet enough to miss the target but couldn't deflect the 165 gr .30 bullet enough to cause a miss. Does this mean I "need" a 45-70 guide gun for nasty weather deer hunting? Opinions or similar experiences anyone?
 
Rain, sleet.......

Kerth, you are correct in your assumptions, and testing....the small caliber, and low velocity rounds will do this to a degree in a deluge.
Or in sleet.........
The faster, heavier cals are a lot more resistant to this anomaly, rain will usually not deflect them, but sleet is another matter............
And you do exactly as you did....wait for the slack period to take your shot
 
When I was 16 or 17 or so, a friend and I would work all week to be able to buy a brick each of 22's for Saturday. We would take off on foot and hit the fields and swamps across the bayou from town with our rifles. One Saturday when we were far from anywhere, there was a hellofa summer thunderbumper that popped up. There was an old barn nearby, in which we took shelter. We went up in the hayloft, which was open on both ends, and were firing from there. At the most a bullet would be 25 yards or so from the muzzle when there would be a big puff of steam/watervapor, or whatever. That "puff" was the 22 hitting a big raindrop. After that "puff" accuracy went South. As the storm abated it may be 75 to 100 yards till we saw that "puff", at that time accuracy was good to 75 tp 100 yards. Years later I found out that a BIG rain drop will cause a 40 grain bullet from a 22-250 to come apart when hitting that drop. Of course that is if it hits one near the muzzle when velocity is still very high.
 
If you have to take wind into consideration when shooting and if water is 1000 times more dense than air (I heard that somewhere), then you have to assume that if wind can cause the trajectory to change that rain water will as well. Snow will to a lesser extent (being less dense and spread out for the same amount of moisture) and hail to a greater extent.
 
I've seen quarter-inch groups get opened to over an inch by raindrops. This is at registered benchrest matches, with competitors and rifles who are capable of shooting consistent quarter inches. No other influences were noted other than the rain.
 
Another possibility?

Our Primary Marksmanship Instructor at Parris Island was asked this very question about rain and bullet trajectory, since it rained most of the week on the range.

He said that rain affected the shooter, and NOT the bullet. (That's the way he said it by the way, emphasis on NOT) In a higher-velocity round such as the .223, I tended to believe him EXCEPT...

My friend's dad was an Air Force snakeeater in Vietnam, competition shooter and very good with an M-16. On his first excursion into Indian country he missed an easy head shot at 100 yards, and then a body shot at the same dude. When he told his armorer, he produced a grease gun for him because common knowledge in the unit was that the .223, being a light grain bullet, was prone to deflection in the undergrowth of where they were operating.

I know, raindrops and greenery aren't the same thing, but food for thought.


La perte des armes est la fin de la liberte.
 
Rain has mass. Bullets have mass. Rain is rarely going in the same direction and at the same speed as a fired bullet. Ipso facto, rain deflects bullets. Now, "how much" depends on the mass/velocity/direction of the drops and the m/v/d of the bullet.
 
Shooting at 1000 yards, we shoot through rain at least a couple times a year. I have never seen any noticeable degredation of accuracy while shooting through it. However, it makes a mess of the targets in a big way. Like wet crackers when you get them back.
 
Rain is rarely going in the same direction and at the same speed as a fired bullet. You ought to see that rain on an offshore platform in the Gulf of Mexico Mal. The velocity will put a 220 Swift to shame and the size of the drops rivals a 458 Winchester Magnum :D :D. I guess thats one of the reasons I am glad I retired.
 
I saw a show on the Discovery Channel that had a segment on police snipers. The sniper was shooting what looked like a .308 and mentioned that rain can lower point of impact.
 
Actually, it won't lower it - it'll randomize it. I've seen shots hit right or left of the group in the rain. This is with a 6PPC rifles, shooting 66-70 grain hollowpoint match bullets at speeds between 3200 and 3400fps... These are NOT wimpy .22 rimfire rifles... our rifles are often capable, if you eliminate all the variables (like wind, shooter hold, etc.), and tune the load properly, of consistently grouping below 0.100" for 5 shots at 100 yards. When a round goes out of a group, and the only thing that's changed is that water is falling from the sky, odds are that the water caused the "flyer."
 
Actually, it won't lower it - it'll randomize it.
Click to expand...
This makes sense. From the bullet's perspective, the raindrops are nearly standing still. If It were misting, rather than raining, then I could see that the statistical average of all of the little drops would add to slow the bullet and lower the point of impact.
 
Adventurer_96,

OK I give up what is a snakeeater?

Also concerning bullet deflection. Let me give you some very sound advice. If someone is hunting you with a 16 don't hide in the bushes and expect bullet deflection to save your life. If you do you lose. This is from actual combat experience. Not one of those buddies stories.

A few years back I did a test for M-193 bullet deflection and bullets going through thumb size tree's didn't make much of a difference shooting into a torso sized target. I'll have to look this report up and post it.

Let me also say I've seen bullet deflection(marks) firing into large stands of bambo but not into regular jungle foilage to miss your target.


Turk
173rd Abn Bdge(Sep)
Vietnam 68-69
 
Certainly seems like this was one of those "buddy" stories, although it was neat to hear it from him. I'm not even sure how much he believed it, I think the point of him telling the story was to tell how his supply sergeant found him a grease gun still packed in cosmoline.

I don't recall any talk of bullet deflection when I was working with the Scout/Snipers, so I don't know if there is any kind of standard thinking in that school in the Marine Corps.

Oh, and a snakeeater is a term which I use tongue-in-cheek, not in the derogatory sense which I seem to remember Gen Schwartzkopf using it in reference to Special Operations units. I like those guys just fine, they may have to pick me up some time if I ever crash!

I'd love to see that report, I always figured that the bullet has enough energy out to its reported max range for a point target to have any kind of minor deflection be negligible. Seems like this may be true.

La perte des armes est la fin de la liberte.
 
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