I know that CA residents often use a bullet button to have all of the "evil" junk they want on their semi-autos. My question is would one of these devices make it so my gun would be NJ legal? Do could I have say and AR with the bayonet lug, threading, folding stock, and flash hider if I ave one of these bullet buttons?
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Bullet Button in NJ
- Thread starter chasep255
- Start date
Aguila Blanca
Staff
What is a bullet button?
Just a guess, but I suspect that California law is different from New Jersey law and that the short answer to your question is probably going to be "No."
Just a guess, but I suspect that California law is different from New Jersey law and that the short answer to your question is probably going to be "No."
Frank Ettin
Administrator
It's a magazine release modified in such a way as to require some sort of tool to operate. Under the vagaries of California law, if the magazine release can not be operated simply with one's finger but requires a tool, the rifle will not be considered to have a detachable magazine. Don't ask me to explain or make sense of it, because I can't. That's just how it is.Aguila Blanca said:What is a bullet button?
BTW it's called a "bullet button" because the tool that can be used to operate the magazine release is most commonly the point of a bullet.
I suspect that you're correct. I have no clue what New Jersey law is, and the details count here. The exact language of the law, and any administrative rulings or court decision applying it, matter.Aguila Blanca said:...Just a guess, but I suspect that California law is different from New Jersey law and that the short answer to your question is probably going to be "No."
Aguila Blanca
Staff
Interesting. I knew that California only allowed ARs with non-detachable magazines, but I thought they were an integral part of the receiver and had a trap door or something for loading.
From the NJ State Police web site:
So New Jersey is more restrictive than the former Federal AWB, in that if it has a fixed magazine exceeding 15 rounds, it's no good. However, the law does not appear to address detachable magazines at all. My guess is that's because there's an exhaustive list of "evil" weapons above, and the state would argue that near clones with detachable magazines of any capacity are "substantially identical" to one of the named firearms.
As to the original question, to be conservative I would say that New Jersey does not appear to have defined "detachable." I hope fiddletown will concur that in court, if a term is not defined in a statute, it defers to a standard dictionary. To my layman's understanding, "detachable" would have to mean "capable of being detached." And if I can use a bullet to push a button and remove the magazine -- I think there's at least a reasonable supposition that (outside of California, of course) the magazine is "detachable."
From the NJ State Police web site:
13:54-1.2 Definitions
The words and terms used in this chapter shall have the following meanings:
...
"Assault firearms" means:
1. The following firearms:
Algimec AGM1 type
Any shotgun with a revolving cylinder such as the "Street Sweeper" or "Striker 12"
Armalite AR-180 type
Australian Automatic Arms SAR
Avtomat Kalashnikov type semi-automatic firearms
Beretta AR-70 and BM59 semi-automatic firearms
Bushmaster Assault Rifle
Calico M-900 Assault carbine and M-900
CETME G3
Chartered Industries of Singapore SR-88 type
Colt AR-15 and CAR-15 series
Daewoo K-1, K-2, Max 1 and Max 2, AR 100 types
Demro TAC-1 carbine type
Encom MP-9 and MP-45 carbine types
FAMAS MAS223 types
FN-FAL, FN-LAR, or FN-FNC type semi-automatic firearms
Franchi SPAS 12 and LAW 12 shotguns
G3SA type
Galil type
Heckler and Koch HK91, HK93, HK94, MP5, PSG-1
Intratec TEC 9 and 22 semi-automatic firearms
M1 carbine type
M14S type
MAC 10, MAC 11, MAC 11-9 mm carbine type firearms
PJK M-68 carbine type
Plainfield Machine Company Carbine
Ruger K-Mini-14/5 and Mini-14/5
SIG AMT, SIG 550SP, SIG 551SP, SIG PE-57 types
SKS with detachable magazine type
Spectre Auto carbine type
Springfield Armory BM59 and SAR-48 type
Sterling MK-6, MK-7 and SAR types
Steyr A.U.G. semi-automatic firearms
USAS 12 semi-automatic type shotgun
Uzi type semi-automatic firearms
Valmet M62, M71S, M76, or M78 type semi-automatic firearms
Weaver Arm Nighthawk
2. Any firearm manufactured under any designation which is substantially identical to any of the firearms listed in paragraph (1) above;
3. A semi-automatic shotgun with either a magazine capacity exceeding six rounds, a folding stock or a pistol grip; or a semi-automatic rifle with a fixed magazine capacity exceeding 15 rounds. For purposes of this paragraph, "semi-automatic" means a firearm which fires a single projectile for each pull of the trigger and is self-reloading or automatically chambers a round, cartridge or bullet. For purposes of this paragraph "pistol grip" means a well defined handle, similar to that found on a handgun, that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon, and which permits the shotgun to be held and fired with one hand;
So New Jersey is more restrictive than the former Federal AWB, in that if it has a fixed magazine exceeding 15 rounds, it's no good. However, the law does not appear to address detachable magazines at all. My guess is that's because there's an exhaustive list of "evil" weapons above, and the state would argue that near clones with detachable magazines of any capacity are "substantially identical" to one of the named firearms.
As to the original question, to be conservative I would say that New Jersey does not appear to have defined "detachable." I hope fiddletown will concur that in court, if a term is not defined in a statute, it defers to a standard dictionary. To my layman's understanding, "detachable" would have to mean "capable of being detached." And if I can use a bullet to push a button and remove the magazine -- I think there's at least a reasonable supposition that (outside of California, of course) the magazine is "detachable."
Frank Ettin
Administrator
Several things --
[1] One issue would be the "substantially identical" language of paragraph 2. Is a rifle that differs from those listed only insofar as its magazine requires a simple tool to detach, different enough so that it's no longer "substantially identical"?
[2] I have no idea how a New Jersey court would rule on that question. Personally, unless there were a decision of the highest appellate court for New Jersey saying explicitly, in so many words, that a rifle with a bullet button was not substantially identical, I wouldn't chance it.
[3] And I agree that I wouldn't bet against a New Jersey court deciding the a magazine that could be removed by using a simple tool on the magazine release was detachable.
[1] One issue would be the "substantially identical" language of paragraph 2. Is a rifle that differs from those listed only insofar as its magazine requires a simple tool to detach, different enough so that it's no longer "substantially identical"?
[2] I have no idea how a New Jersey court would rule on that question. Personally, unless there were a decision of the highest appellate court for New Jersey saying explicitly, in so many words, that a rifle with a bullet button was not substantially identical, I wouldn't chance it.
[3] And I agree that I wouldn't bet against a New Jersey court deciding the a magazine that could be removed by using a simple tool on the magazine release was detachable.
silentargus
New member
Not offering any deep commentary, but I hadn't ever heard of the bullet button phenomenon until I started posting on gun forums. If such a device could prevent a firearm from being classified as an "assault weapon" under NJ law then I strongly suspect they would be a lot more popular around here.
DrJohnMARoy
Inactive
CA AG agrees that a Bullet Button has a fixed magazine
The CA attorney general in the response to a bullet button case said that a gun with a BB has a "fixed magazine". Here is the link to the response issued on June 6, 2011. Look at the top of page 12. http://ia600507.us.archive.org/10/items/gov.uscourts.cand.225676/gov.uscourts.cand.225676.26.1.pdf
I am no lawyer but that seems to say quite clearly that a gun with a BB now has a fixed (not detachable) magazine. So it is not "substantiality identical", but the magazine used with the BB would need to be 15 rounds or less.
So a non-named gun (like say an FN SCAR 16) with a bullet button and a 10 round fixed magazine could have a threaded barrel and a collapsable stock and anything else.
But who the he'll knows in this crazy state.
The CA attorney general in the response to a bullet button case said that a gun with a BB has a "fixed magazine". Here is the link to the response issued on June 6, 2011. Look at the top of page 12. http://ia600507.us.archive.org/10/items/gov.uscourts.cand.225676/gov.uscourts.cand.225676.26.1.pdf
I am no lawyer but that seems to say quite clearly that a gun with a BB now has a fixed (not detachable) magazine. So it is not "substantiality identical", but the magazine used with the BB would need to be 15 rounds or less.
So a non-named gun (like say an FN SCAR 16) with a bullet button and a 10 round fixed magazine could have a threaded barrel and a collapsable stock and anything else.
But who the he'll knows in this crazy state.
Frank Ettin
Administrator
That's fine in California. But the OP asked about New Jersey.DrJohnMARoy said:The CA attorney general ...
The California Attorney General and his opinions don't mean anything in New Jersey. Beside, you're looking at a Memorandum of Points and Authorities which really has no application outside the case in which it was filed.
So none of what you're pointing to has any application in New Jersey, nor does it help with the OP's question.
Last edited:
Aguila Blanca
Staff
But ... the question pertains to New Jersey. New Jersey is in no way constrained to accept the opinion (not codified in law, and certainly not in NJ law) of the CA Attorney General that a bullet button equates to "fixed."DrJohnMARoy said:The CA attorney general in the response to a bullet button case said that a gun with a BB has a "fixed magazine". Here is the link to the response issued on June 6, 2011. Look at the top of page 12. http://ia600507.us.archive.org/10/it...25676.26.1.pdf
I am no lawyer but that seems to say quite clearly that a gun with a BB now has a fixed (not detachable) magazine. So it is not "substantiality identical", but the magazine used with the BB would need to be 15 rounds or less.
I am certain that NJ would consider a magazine that is designed to be REMOVED in normal operation of the firearm (even if a simple tool is required) to be a detachable magazine. When considering anything related to NJ simply throw logic out the window, and yes apples are oranges in NJ...