bull barrel or hbar?

Crankgrinder

New member
im another guy thinking on ars. i like the bull barrels they say that they are phenominaly accurate are they worth the money? i notice the 20" hbar kits are much cheaper. i do not think chrome lining is a must for me most of my other guns arent and no problems with those. accuracy i suppose is my purpose for this gun seeing as how you must hit what youre shooting at no matter what youre shooting it with. any thoughts?
 
I may be all the way around wrong, but I'll share my thoughts on that with ya anyhow.

There's a lot of variables below the surface of what seems like your pretty much straight forward question. A bull bbl wont be any better than a pencil bbl if there is no quality in the manufacturing processes and/or the ammo. If you're going for the most accurately placed shots then it stands to reason you're not giong to deliver a high rate of fire- right? Heat will effect bbl's, and there's a corrolation between how much bbl and how much heat- the thinner the bbl the quicker grouping will open up. I honestly don't think, judging from your post, that you'll ever heat up a H-Bar enough to throw things off.

A bull bbl gets to be a chore to lug around a lot quicker than a h-bar of the same length. Now if you're strickly a bench shooter, that may not matter much.

I guess my short answer would be to cease worriment over bulls and h-bars. What may be a more logical route to your goal is to look into getting a national match or DCM rated bbl (which will in all liklihood be a h-bar). Those will be a whole lot more likely to have the quality built in from the git-go.
 
Another way to look at it is an expensive pencil barrel will almost always outshoot a cheap bull or HBAR. A barrel is accurate because it creates more consistency shot to shot. That's controlled by the quality of rifling, amount of jacket buildup, muzzle crowning, twist and number of lands, and it's length, which centers the muzzle in a low vibration point.

If the barrel material is full of inclusions and stress, just being a lot thicker isn't necessarily going to help all that much. It's just one factor of a dozen.

In the typical impossible to test comparison, two identical barrels with just an overall diameter difference will show a minor difference in accuracy. The fun part of that discussion is no one can say how much - it's never been scientifically tested and proven, just accepted. That's because the extreme benchrest shooters all use it, so it must be so. Well, a lot of that is just making the thing weigh a lot so recoil won't disturb it as much.

In the AR, so many other factors can improve accuracy that just making the barrel thick isn't even a priority - ammo, optic, and the shooter have more influence.
 
Purpose. For target shooting from a benchrest, a properly-built AR with a heavy barrel is very good.

A "walking around" hunting rifle? The weight takes the fun out of the deal, rather quickly. Certainly not the best choice in any sort of self-defense situation, for that matter.
 
Crankgrinder said:
accuracy i suppose is my purpose for this gun seeing as how you must hit what youre shooting at no matter what youre shooting it with. any thoughts?

Quality trumps barrel profile always.
A good 16" may out shoot a cheap 20" bull or hbar.
If you don't mind the extra weight of the bull or hbar profile then go for it. If your setting up cranks in a grinder all day long you have the arm strength.

I recently spent some time shooting a DPMS fluted 18" 1-8 stainless bull barrel AR. These are very affordable barrels ($200) and this one easily shot to the limits of my abilities. I was getting 3/4 to 1 1/4 groups at 100yds with out much effort.
 
Money doesnt allways buy accuracy in ar barrels either. Ive seen cheap dmps bull barreled guns that shoot 1/2 inch groups. I also own myself a dmps sportical with a pensil barrel that will outshoot by hbar colt that cost about twice as much. By the way my colt isnt a bad shooting gun but i own a stag and a bushmaster too and they will both outshoot the colt. Best shooting ar i personaly own is a colt lower with a cmmg upper that has a stainless hbar weight 1-7 twist model one barrel and model one sure isnt known for high end quality.
 
I built a high end AR using a DPMS Mini SASS fluted 18" 1-8 stainless, Teflon coated bull barrel. ($200) from Midwayusa! It will shoot sub MOA at 100 & 200yards all day! I can ring steel with it at 600 yards all day!

Not bragging, just saying money doesn't always buy the best results. It comes down to the quality of the material used and the manufacturing process. Some will say DPMS is on the low end, this is not the case with this barrel!

Now can you say Heavy!!! That it is!!! But the added weight with the Magpul PRS Stock weight balances the AR out nicely... Would I want to carry it and hunt all day? NO!!! Use it in combat? YES!!! Because it is reliable, accurate and built to take abuse... :D
 

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now that is a very nice rifle! great scope on it too. i do notice that the bull barrels that come from the sources ive seen do not have chrome bores. the heavy bbls do although im not so sure thats all that important to me. i would like this gun to provide much fun target shooting but also serve double duty for shtf.
 
Aren't bull barrels prohibited in service matches where HBARs are legal? That would be a big difference.
 
+1 for the bull barrel if your shooting from a bench and dont have to cart your heavy bugger around much,,, this is my H&S .308, my best shooter out to 800 yards but she's kind of a cow at 23lbs
 

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They make mid weight profile barrels which is the best of both worlds IMO.

I thought bull barrel and hbar were the same thing???

Bull Barrel=HBAR=Heavy Barrel

Is this wrong?
 
whooo 23 lbs! that gun cold see duty as a club if only one could swing it. i realy do not find an 8lb rifle terribly heavy and im not sure a hbar would be all that much lighter so i think ill still go with the bull on this one. if i need a lighter one i could just buy an extra one to swap out i suppose.
 
Ripnbst- No, a bull bbl will usually be the same diameter (1" - 1.25") from end to end. A h-bar will have whatever the military contour from the front sight to muzzle and be around .75" from front sight area to chamber end. A military contour is actually thicker from front sight to muzzle than the area under the handguards. A light bbl (pencil) is in the neighborhood of .63"(?) pretty much the whole way.

NOTE- Those are not exact measurements, but they should be close to the ballpark for illustration purposes.
 
Crankgrinder,

Most off the shelf bull barrels you will find are going to be 1:8 twist rifling. I have a Rock River Varmint with 20" bull barrel 1:8 twist.
For it to be accurate you will need to shoot heavier match bullets (more $$$).
Mine in particular will tightly group 68-75-77 grain Black Hills match hollow points. It hated anything lighter.

An available option would be the 1:12 twist for shooting 55gr or lighter bullets.
 
legal

Aren't bull barrels prohibited in service matches where HBARs are legal? That would be a big difference.

That is correct. Must be military profile. Iron sights, no glass.
 3.1 Service Rifle - As issued by the U.S. Armed Forces, or the same type and caliber of commercially
manufactured rifle, having not less than 4 1/2 pound trigger pull, with standard type stock and standard type
leather or web sling. External alterations to the assembled arm will not be allowed.
Pete
 
but she's kind of a cow at 23lbs
Must be the left handed action that makes it so heavy ;)
Bull Barrel=HBAR=Heavy Barrel

Is this wrong?
IINM, bull barrels are large diameter all the way to the muzzle. HBARs are large diameter under the handguard and then standard diameter up front -- the exposed part maintains the military profile.
 
i would like this gun to provide much fun target shooting but also serve double duty

Then you might want to go this route. Built with CMMG Lower and Upper, DPMS lower kit, 16" DPMS HBAR barrel with 1X9 twist, SSA BCG, DPMS Extension tube, buffer and spring kit. Magpul MOE 6 position stock, pistol grip and handguard. Rail height Picatinny rail gas block, Troy front and rear flip up Battle Sights, optics of your choice. I built this for under $1000. Very light, accurate and reliable, easy to carry and maneuever.

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blacksky said:
I built a high end AR using a DPMS Mini SASS fluted 18" 1-8 stainless, Teflon coated bull barrel. ($200) from Midwayusa! It will shoot sub MOA at 100 & 200yards all day! I can ring steel with it at 600 yards all day!

Nice to hear that about the mini SASS. I just ordered one from Midway.
 
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