Build the perfect light rifle

G

George Hill

Staff Alumnus
Continuing the earlier thread: http://www.thefiringline.com/NonCGI/Forum3/HTML/004436.html

How small could the FAL be scaled down?
If you went down to .223 and used GI mags...
that could make a pretty handy rifle.
In another thread I mentioned building a new rifle here in the US that used USGI mags but who's lower reciever just happened to be totally compatable with the SL8 Upper.
Then you could legally swap them and have a USGI fed SL8.
 
I just touched my first FAL yesterday. I was surprised it was going for $600. I don't really know much about them. I personally prefer the .223 over the .308 ONLY because I'd rather not have to worry about running out of ammo. The thing that caught my attention is the gas tube. I stared at it for 15min trying to see what everyone on the TFL was bitching about. I've read enough about that whole ordeal in that thread about ARs. I'm kind of surprised that with everyone jumping down to the .223 from the .308 that nobody is scaling down the FAL. I thought the British were using some variation of the FAL when I saw them in KOSOVO. But I was wrong. I think the British probable have done it but for some Political/Military Contracting they switched to those goofy looking guns.
 
Let's not forget that the rifle is only half the equation. If you don't have enough ammo, it won't matter how good your rifle is. The caseless ammo is 1/2 the weight of conventional brass which allows you to carry TWICE as much firepower for the same load.
g11compare.jpg
 
George, the first problem I have with your scaled-down FAL is that converting to "GI mags" by which I assume you mean M16/AR mags, means you aren't going to have an ambi mag release lever. Secondly, using those mags limits the cartridge overall length.

Quick, from your diagram it looks like they aren't comparing apples to apples. The G11 round is 4.73mm, which isn't going to please a lot of the M16 haters here. If you size the thing up to 6.0 or 6.5mm caliber, with enough powder to achieve the 1750 ft-lb of muzzle energy (or whatever the consensus comes out to be), and have the "chassis" strong enough for CQB, prying crates open, etc., then the caseless system may not provide much of a weight advantage.

The demands of the TFL crowd are very stringent (if only the Army's Ordnance dept was as tough!), it would take a lot of work to please all customers.
 
I wouldn't worry about finding ammo for whatever gun you choose.

In the situation people imply here, you'd also find 223 guns to go with them. And not the crappy ones you have now with no threaded muzzle and no select fire.

So buy whatever you want and da** the ammo situation.

You cannot get a better 223 gun than you are not allowed (aside from spending 8K) to have.

Battler.
 
Even class 3 restricted m16s are still m16s.
While I have used a CAR15 that was most sweet... never jammed on me... That gun was RARE. The other AR type rifles I have used always had SOMETHING...
Most of them just plain didnt cut the mustard.
One rifle that does is the M96. I've been to the new factory where these things are made... It was an impressive little operation. Effecient with some good people there. I wouldnt hesitate to buy one if I wanted to buy a .223 rifle.
 
thequickad,

By extending your logic, or at least that displayed in the graphic that you so thoughtfully provided, we would be better off with hopper fed weapons that fire 22LR cartridges.
 
Destructo, the action of the FNC isn't the same as the FAL. It is more similar to an AR style bolt with an AK gas system. Only the FNC has a fixed extractor, and the lugs are set up different.

FN tried scaling down the FAL earlier with the FN CAL. It was a failure, the CAL didn't live up to FN's normal standards of reliability so they ditched it and then went with the FNC instead. The development of the CAL first delayed FN's jump into the .223 market, and their hopes of gaining all of those countries that previously used FALs where lost.

I've never gotten to use a FNC but I hear that they are great rifles.
 
FWIW, I seem to remember photos and stories of Aussie and NZ SAS using cut down FALs in Vietnam. They chopped the barrel to something like 11" or so, gave it a nasty name due to the muzzle flash.
 
Ive fired the FNC, and while it was a decent rifle... I was less than impressed. Also - dispite an AK like operation - it doesnt have AK like reliability... The one I fired had some problems with failure to extract.
 
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