I have used this forums input on buying 2 shotguns for myself and my son and now here I am again. BigJim if your out there I value your input. I want to get something with a longer barrel for trap. My o/u has 26" barrels so that is why I am looking at the Bt-99. My local shop has a Bt-99 in very nice shape for $750 however it is a mid 70's model or I can get a new one on gun broker for a little over 1k. Is an older model better/worse? Is there any other options I should look at? Or should I just spend my money on getting my o/u custom fitted? Are the 26" barrels on my o/u to short for trap? Thanks!
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BT-99 help
- Thread starter Bfry012
- Start date
Lots of experienced shooters on here ..not just me ...but sure, I'm around.
Older BT-99's vs newer ones ....not really much difference in my view - at least mechanically. The BT-99's were made from late 1960's thru 1995 or so / then in 2001 they went into production again and continue today. At some point - they started putting adjustable ribs on them / and some add on systems like GraCoil, etc ...( probably in 2001 or newer ).
There was also a single barrel model BT-100 / and its significantly different - in that, its trigger group is removeable by moving a lever on bottom of trigger group and it pops out for easy service and cleaning / but it was more expensive to mfg, and they were only made from 1995 - 2001 or so. The removeable trigger is a nice option / if you can find a BT-100.
But a single barrel break open gun ...mechanically, they're all about the same. Most are 2 3/4" chambers...and barrel lengths are common in 30", 32" and 34" ....and there are some differences in the forend styles. Some have adj combs / some don't. So you have to look at all those features and decide what you want. In terms of durability - I don't know of any issues on the BT-99 or BT-100 prior to the new generation of BT-99's ( where with the new adj ribs / some shooters say, they can't get the point of impact down far enough / they shoot too high - and they are a little fragile if you aren't careful in and out of gun racks - in terms of the rib adjustability. But adjustable ribs are the newest thing in Trap guns ( Krieghoff, Ljutic, Browning, Caesar Guerini, etc - on their single barrel guns ).
Many of the older Brownings ( had the older Invector chokes in them / they're shorter). Browning started putting the Invector chokes in shotguns in early 1980's. When Browning started back boring barrels - in late 1980's or early 90's - they changed the chokes to Invector Plus. Most guys will tell you they think the Invector Plus guns ....pattern a little better. If the gun you're looking at was made in the 1970's - its probably a fixed choke / likely a Full choke - so no, I wouldn't recommend any fixed choke gun vs a changeable screw in choke system.
In general, I think the Citori XT Trap over under in either 30" or 32" barrels is a more versatile shotgun - you can shoot some sporting as well as Trap singles or doubles ...or continental Trap - where you can take 2 shots at one target. I'm not saying a single barrel break open Trap gun is a waste - but its a "one trick pony" in that its only good for Trap singles. I especially like the Citori XT Trap in 32" barrels.
In general ....a heavier ( between 9 lbs and 10 lbs ) and a longer barrel - like 32" in O/U or 34" in a single ...is a plus for Trap. Heavier weight helps on follow-thru / longer barrel gives you a better sight plane. But its a balance issue / what feels good in your hands vs my hands / I'm 6'5" and 275 lbs ...and while I like a 10lb Trap gun / its too much for a 13 yr old ( its too heavy / too clumsy ) ...but they may grow into it. Kids grow so fast / change so fast - its hard to predict.
Even my general purpose guns ...for skeet and sporting ...in 12ga or even in .410 ...I shoot Browing Citori O/U's ( XS skeet models with 30" barrels ). My boys / my older grandkids ( 15 - 20) - are all shooting 30" or 32" over unders now ...for sporting or Trap or Skeet ( in 28ga, 20ga or 12ga). Some of the younger girls / like 13 - don't have a lot of upper body strength - but I picked up a Benelli super sport model, 20ga, in a 28" barrel ( 6.2 lbs ) and its been a nice gun for the younger kids to shoot. I also have a 28ga O/U ( XS Skeet with 30" barrels ) that some of the kids were shooting at 11 and 12 yrs old ....
so part of this is picking a gun ...and part of it is managing the recoil ( loading lighter shells ) ...and making it fun for them.
I like the BT-100 over the BT-99 ...but I like it better in 34" than in 32" / but I don't like it nearly as much as the Citori XT Trap in a 32" ..../ and I would not buy a gun without the screw in Invector chokes / and I'd prefer the newer Invector Plus chokes ( my BT-100 has Invector plus in it ).
Is a 26" or 28" O/U too short for Trap ...no ! Is it optimal - maybe ---but that's partly why there are so many guns out there / what fits me, isn't necessarily your best option ( size of hands, etc / lenght of pull / drop at comb /drop at heel / parallel comb guns ...) lots of options...
Hope this makes some sense...
Older BT-99's vs newer ones ....not really much difference in my view - at least mechanically. The BT-99's were made from late 1960's thru 1995 or so / then in 2001 they went into production again and continue today. At some point - they started putting adjustable ribs on them / and some add on systems like GraCoil, etc ...( probably in 2001 or newer ).
There was also a single barrel model BT-100 / and its significantly different - in that, its trigger group is removeable by moving a lever on bottom of trigger group and it pops out for easy service and cleaning / but it was more expensive to mfg, and they were only made from 1995 - 2001 or so. The removeable trigger is a nice option / if you can find a BT-100.
But a single barrel break open gun ...mechanically, they're all about the same. Most are 2 3/4" chambers...and barrel lengths are common in 30", 32" and 34" ....and there are some differences in the forend styles. Some have adj combs / some don't. So you have to look at all those features and decide what you want. In terms of durability - I don't know of any issues on the BT-99 or BT-100 prior to the new generation of BT-99's ( where with the new adj ribs / some shooters say, they can't get the point of impact down far enough / they shoot too high - and they are a little fragile if you aren't careful in and out of gun racks - in terms of the rib adjustability. But adjustable ribs are the newest thing in Trap guns ( Krieghoff, Ljutic, Browning, Caesar Guerini, etc - on their single barrel guns ).
Many of the older Brownings ( had the older Invector chokes in them / they're shorter). Browning started putting the Invector chokes in shotguns in early 1980's. When Browning started back boring barrels - in late 1980's or early 90's - they changed the chokes to Invector Plus. Most guys will tell you they think the Invector Plus guns ....pattern a little better. If the gun you're looking at was made in the 1970's - its probably a fixed choke / likely a Full choke - so no, I wouldn't recommend any fixed choke gun vs a changeable screw in choke system.
In general, I think the Citori XT Trap over under in either 30" or 32" barrels is a more versatile shotgun - you can shoot some sporting as well as Trap singles or doubles ...or continental Trap - where you can take 2 shots at one target. I'm not saying a single barrel break open Trap gun is a waste - but its a "one trick pony" in that its only good for Trap singles. I especially like the Citori XT Trap in 32" barrels.
In general ....a heavier ( between 9 lbs and 10 lbs ) and a longer barrel - like 32" in O/U or 34" in a single ...is a plus for Trap. Heavier weight helps on follow-thru / longer barrel gives you a better sight plane. But its a balance issue / what feels good in your hands vs my hands / I'm 6'5" and 275 lbs ...and while I like a 10lb Trap gun / its too much for a 13 yr old ( its too heavy / too clumsy ) ...but they may grow into it. Kids grow so fast / change so fast - its hard to predict.
Even my general purpose guns ...for skeet and sporting ...in 12ga or even in .410 ...I shoot Browing Citori O/U's ( XS skeet models with 30" barrels ). My boys / my older grandkids ( 15 - 20) - are all shooting 30" or 32" over unders now ...for sporting or Trap or Skeet ( in 28ga, 20ga or 12ga). Some of the younger girls / like 13 - don't have a lot of upper body strength - but I picked up a Benelli super sport model, 20ga, in a 28" barrel ( 6.2 lbs ) and its been a nice gun for the younger kids to shoot. I also have a 28ga O/U ( XS Skeet with 30" barrels ) that some of the kids were shooting at 11 and 12 yrs old ....
so part of this is picking a gun ...and part of it is managing the recoil ( loading lighter shells ) ...and making it fun for them.
I like the BT-100 over the BT-99 ...but I like it better in 34" than in 32" / but I don't like it nearly as much as the Citori XT Trap in a 32" ..../ and I would not buy a gun without the screw in Invector chokes / and I'd prefer the newer Invector Plus chokes ( my BT-100 has Invector plus in it ).
Is a 26" or 28" O/U too short for Trap ...no ! Is it optimal - maybe ---but that's partly why there are so many guns out there / what fits me, isn't necessarily your best option ( size of hands, etc / lenght of pull / drop at comb /drop at heel / parallel comb guns ...) lots of options...
Hope this makes some sense...
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Thanks BigJim
The feel of my Red Label 26" when shouldered was the main reason for the purchase however the $500 it cost was a contributing factor also. I just started shooting at it is very addicting. Do you think my money would be better spent getting my red label custom fit for me?
The feel of my Red Label 26" when shouldered was the main reason for the purchase however the $500 it cost was a contributing factor also. I just started shooting at it is very addicting. Do you think my money would be better spent getting my red label custom fit for me?
No, I'd say take it to the pattern board and see where it is hitting....and then make stock adjustments as needed ( maybe a comb pad or something ) vs any custom fitting. Maybe invest in a few lessons ....and develop your shooting fundamentals first...and see how this gun evolves with you over time.
I understand the attraction of price ...but I think you need to resist investing in another gun --- until you have a few thousand birds under your belt. Talk to a lot of guys at your local club / about guns / cost etc ...and see what kind of falls out as a preferred platform vs a 1970's BT-99 ...the 1970's BT-99 might fit the budget now - but be a bad plan moving forward when you should have waited and invested in something else. Selling a fixed choke gun down the road - will be more difficult as well ( and that's why its such a good price now probably ).
There is nothing wrong with the Ruger ...but I don't know how its going to hold up - as you work toward a 100,000 shell life either. Many of us shoot 15,000 - 20,000 shells a year / but you have to temper what is a good competition long term gun vs a casual shooters gun...and how to make that compromise. Its easy to get excited ...and make bad choices ...so I'd say slow down / see how you feel about this gun in a few months ...
I understand the attraction of price ...but I think you need to resist investing in another gun --- until you have a few thousand birds under your belt. Talk to a lot of guys at your local club / about guns / cost etc ...and see what kind of falls out as a preferred platform vs a 1970's BT-99 ...the 1970's BT-99 might fit the budget now - but be a bad plan moving forward when you should have waited and invested in something else. Selling a fixed choke gun down the road - will be more difficult as well ( and that's why its such a good price now probably ).
There is nothing wrong with the Ruger ...but I don't know how its going to hold up - as you work toward a 100,000 shell life either. Many of us shoot 15,000 - 20,000 shells a year / but you have to temper what is a good competition long term gun vs a casual shooters gun...and how to make that compromise. Its easy to get excited ...and make bad choices ...so I'd say slow down / see how you feel about this gun in a few months ...
My advice is to check your states ATA website to see when the next large shoot is in your state. Make the trip down and see what its all about. That will give you some idea of what the gamet of guns being used is.
Heres the ATA website.
http://www.shootata.com/default.aspx
Its a good browse.
Heres the ATA website.
http://www.shootata.com/default.aspx
Its a good browse.
oneounceload
Moderator
Start talking to folks at your local gun club and see if they will let you try their gun for round or even a few shots - you may find a brand you were unfamiliar with that might be just the ticket.
IF all the gun is for is American trap singles, a BT-99 is a great gun
IF you have plans for trap doubles, bunker trap, skeet, 5-stand, sporting clays, FITASC, or box birds, then an O/U with 2 barrels is the way to go
While Jim is correct about a longer barrel giving you a longer sight plane, you should be looking at the bird, not the barrel or sights. Where the longer barrel (and different balance points) comes into play is in your swing dynamics and follow through
You might also shoot in one of your club's fun leagues - if they have them. Great way to meet new folks, get more advice and opinions, and try some more guns
Good luck
IF all the gun is for is American trap singles, a BT-99 is a great gun
IF you have plans for trap doubles, bunker trap, skeet, 5-stand, sporting clays, FITASC, or box birds, then an O/U with 2 barrels is the way to go
While Jim is correct about a longer barrel giving you a longer sight plane, you should be looking at the bird, not the barrel or sights. Where the longer barrel (and different balance points) comes into play is in your swing dynamics and follow through
You might also shoot in one of your club's fun leagues - if they have them. Great way to meet new folks, get more advice and opinions, and try some more guns
Good luck