Browning High Power Mark II Accuracy

S

Skorzeny

New member
I have one of those Belgian BHP Mark II from AIM, Inc. (previously used by the Israelis).

As a worn piece, obviously it does not have a tight slide-frame fit. When I hold the pistol and shake a bit, it does rattle.

Now, the question is: will that looseness significantly affect accuracy at 25 feet to 25 yard range?

Will a simple re-crowning job improve accuracy of this old pistol OR will I have to plunk down extra money to tighten the slide-frame fit? Oh, BTW, the barrel-slide lockup seems to be still pretty tight.

Thanks!

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
Skorz, I have two thoughts on this. 1) call Dick Williams 2) call Novak's 45 shop. I am sure that either of these gentlemen will give you an honest answer. My gut feeling is that recrowning the barrel isn't going to make that much difference and that the answer is an after market barrel. Regards, Richard
 
Hello, Skorzeny! It all depends upon how good of a shot you are as to whether or not an improvement will be noticed. Also, if the bbl/slide fit are tight, you may very well get nice groups.

Shoot the gun an see. At 21 feet, you should be able to "waller out a hole" and at 25 yds, with ammo it likes, you should be able to shoot 2.5 to 3" groups.

Best.
 
I had an opportunity to buy one of these from a friend who had two of them. The one that was for sale shot 8-11" groups at 25 yards from a rest with two different loads. I passed and bought a 1974 model.
Neil Casper
 
I know this thread is old, but I still want to contribute. My MKIII has a loose frame to slide fit. But the barrel to slide fit is tight. And that's the important thing. It shoots 2.5 to 3" groups off hand at 25 yards. I'm having the barrel re-crowned and I hope these numbers will improve.
 
First of all, thanks to all of you who responded with thoughtful ideas.

Well, I'd like to ask you folks for an advise. Should I keep the gun and then send it to Kurt Wickmann for some customization (C&S commander hammer, Browning or Novak extended safety, re-crown barrel, re-finish, Spegel grips, Novak low-mount sights, etc. etc.) OR should I sell this old piece, buy a Mark III and then have Mr. Wickmann install a C&S hammer, Spegel grips and do a trigger job?

I am afraid to spend more money on a worn pistol that may just be nothing but a drain of valuable money.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
My advice? Sell it. Later this year FN will be importing the MKIII. Here's a copy of the email sent to me by FN:

Dear ____,

Thank you for your e-mail concerning the Hi-power pistol. We plan to import
a quantity of the FN produced pistols in the Mark III variety. They will
have the military finish. We expect the first delivery of 9mm by the end of
the year. Some 40 S&W pistols will be imported sometime next year. At the
present time our distribution is primarily law enforcement focused.
However, several of our distributors also have non-law enforcement
components to their business. At the appropriate time you could have your
dealer contact one of the following distributors: -----

Best regards,

Bill forson
Director, Law Enforcement Sales
 
<BLOCKQUOTE><font size="1" face="Verdana, Arial">quote:</font><HR>Originally posted by Skorzeny:
I am afraid to spend more money on a worn pistol that may just be nothing but a drain of valuable money.
[/quote]

Skorzeny, I wouldn't assume the pistol is worn just yet. Usually military pistols do get some pretty harsh treatment but the rattle may not be indicative of a worn gun.

All of the MkII and MkIII Hi-Powers I have owned have been notorious about developing a little "character" in the form of some slight rattling and loose slide to frame fit.
My 1995 MkIII came right out of the box with the rattle - I sent it off to Wickmann's who tightened it up nicely - but 2,000 rounds later it is back again.

That being said, all of these pistols have been wonderful performers for me and the custom job by Wickmann is just astonishingly accurate. I'd have a gunsmith (or Wickmann's) look at the gun first and determine the extent of wear before I wrote it off.

By the way, my review of my Wickmann custom Hi-Power is at http://www.ont.com/users/kolya/HiPo.htm
 
Icopy:

Thanks for the information. If I understand that letter correctly, will Browning release the "law enforcement" Mark III's (sans 13-round magazines) to the commercial market?

Bartholomew Roberts:

Thanks for sharing the review. Your High Power is beautiful. Would you mind sharing with the rest of us what the total cost was?

To All:

I have another question. I found my Mark II have a very stiff hammer spring. It is difficult to retract the slide without first cocking the hammer. Is this normal? I never experienced this with any other pistol.

I am wondering if the hammer spring is stock or whether it was modified by some Israeli gunsmith.

Also, the trigger is kinda funny. It is lighter than most stock High Power triggers I have dealt with, but here is the funny thing: normally when I shoot pistols, I pull the trigger, hold it and then slowly let go until I hear a reset click and then pull the trigger again. In this High Power, I cannot hear or feel that "click." I actually have to let go of the trigger all the way for it to reset. Again, I suspect that some Israeli gunsmith may have done a trigger job of some sort.

Any thoughts? Thanks.

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
Skorzeny: The cost for parts, labor, and shipping on the gun was right around $1500. As you can tell, I didn't spare any expense since a little over $600 of that is in express shipping and special order parts (like the KKM barrel, Roguard/NP3 finish, C&S hammer etc.)

A lot of that stuff isn't necessary for the gun but is stuff I just wanted for my own "dream gun". Personally, the stock Browning barrel seems to be capable of the same accuracy once it has been recrowned by a professional.

Regarding the other issues:

Don't know about the hammer springs, BHPs in general can be pretty difficult to rack the slide on. Most women I have let shoot mine are unable to do it.

I am just going off of what I read somewhere but I believe the reason for the long reset is the inertial firing pin safety in the later versions of the Hi-Power (MkIII and some MkII). If you are able to find a Hi-Power without this safety (such as the Inglis or T-series) you will have a shorter reset - although you will also be lacking an inertial firing pin safety to stop the gun from firing if it is dropped the wrong way. This isn't a modification but is a stock item on the MkIII.
 
Skorzeny --

By no means, am I a gunsmith. But, in my opinion, your gun is fine. The tight hammer spring is normal. It is actually a good sign. Means your pistol hasn't seen much use. Just pull the slide back with some gusto and you'll be fine. As far as your trigger, it's ok too. Hi-Power trigger don't reset like a Glock or a 1911. It works on rocker spring. You can install a stronger return spring if you'd like. Wolf Gun Spring sells them. My MKIII has the 3 coil spring and is perfect. Yours, being a MKII, should have the two coil spring. Go to Wolf's web site and they have info regarding springs for the Hi-Power. Don't worry about the frame to slide fit. It's the barrel to slide fit that's important. Your lighter trigger may be from a longer trigger lever or a longer sear lever.


As you can assume from the email, Browning will no longer be selling the MKIII. They will be imported from FN. Also, FN will be importing the HPDA model.


Here's a question for you. How well does your gun shoot?
 
Unless you are mounting optics to the frame, slide to frame fit doesn't matter, unless realy sloppy. Barrel to slide fit counts. My CZ-85 is extremely accurate with noticeable play between slide and frame.

Don't see how recrowning can help unless crown was damaged or not true to begin with. Try how it shoots first with several types of ammo. It may need to be rebarreled with a fitted bbl.

Beretta and Hi-Power are famous for their capability to ignite old, hard, corosive primers while others fail. Also, the hammer spring plays a part in slide cycling so if you decide to replace with lighter, get a stronger recoil spring.

As far as reset, I don't have a Hi-Power currently, but CZ-85 is close enough. On this gun after reseting (hearing the click) and trying to press the trigger again there is small amount of take up. So I'd guess it's ok, we are not talking about 1911 or Glock here.

Btw, MK-III could only use night sights of choice, grips of choice and a trigger job (not necessary) to make it perfect IMO.

[This message has been edited by glockgazda (edited September 06, 2000).]
 
Skorz,

I know that it won't be done by a name gunsmith but Dick Williams will make your Browning look like showroom new at a fraction of the price. The only thing I have left to do to my FM by Dick is a Bar-sto barrel. The barrel looks like my Xmas present to myself.

Knowing your location I wonder why you don't give Kim Ahrends a whirl. I have seen his work, I use his grips, and his gunsmithing is second to none.

Regards,

Richard
 
Thanks, all of you, for your comments.

I forgot about Kim Ahrends. I should check him out. Perhaps I should contact Dick Williams to see what his prices will be.

Lastly, I forgot that I can purchase a FM High Power for about $350. I realize that it is probably not going to be as accurate as a Belgian Mark III, but surely it must be more accurate than a 16 year-old Mark II from Israel?

Skorzeny

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For to win one hundred victories in one hundred battles is not the acme of skill. To subdue the enemy without fighting is the supreme excellence. Sun Tzu
 
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