Browning Hi Power

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BigG

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From another thread:

The Hi-Power was designed by the greatest gun designer of all time: John Browning. It was his improvement over the 1911 .45
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My idea is that the second sentence of the quote is debatable. If you said the theory (idea) behind the Browning Hi Power was an improvement of the Colt 45 Auto, I might tend to agree, but the gun itself is not the fruit of Browning's theory.

IIRC, Browning's original idea was to have a single action, single stack, striker-fired, 9 millimeter (Euros had no use for a 45 Caliber) holster pistol that did away with the grip safety.

What happened was the Belgians (Saive fits in here somewhere) redesigned the original pistol to have a high capacity mag, a traditional hammer, and a magazine safety.

So, if the 1911 Colt 45 Auto were redesigned to be striker fired, I would consider it an improvement. I hate hammer bite, but I tolerate it. ;)
 
Actually, if you go to http://www.fnhipower.com/ and follow the links from there you can find out quite a bit about the design of the Hi-Power.

Just like Browning designed the 1911 to meet the specifications of the U.S. Army contract (including the grip safety which was an Army spec and not a Browning idea), Browning designed the Hi-Power for Fabrique Nationale to compete for a French army contract.

The French contract called for a high-capacity that could not be met by a single-stack magazine. Browning's sons claim that JMB created the double-stack mag. Dieudonne Saive, who finished the majority of the project when JMB died in 1927, claims that he created the double-stack magazine.

In any case, JMB did add some improvements to the gun, like a Browning style cam to unlock it instead of a swinging link design.

JMB still gets most of the credit for a design that bears his name; even though Saive unquestionably did a lot of the work for FN. Its OK though as Saive later got his due by creating the FAL.

That is probably why the Hi-Power is so good - it isn't the result of a single firearms genius; but a collaboration of two of them.
 
Apparently JMB's design genius, relative to the Hi-Power, was somewhat restrained by patents on his designs held by Colt. Browning had to design his 9mm using principles that could not be cribbed from previous Browning models. When Colt's patents expired, Saive incorporated a lot of 1911-ness into the Hi-Power. While the Hi-Power is very little like the gun Browning sent FN, it is possibly very much like the gun he would have designed had he not faced the legal restraints.
 
John M Browning might have designed the BHP, but in my opinion it is not an improvement.The BHP trigger system is anything but an improvement. It is difficult to believe that JMB designed the tiny little trigger lever and its method of connecting to the sear.

If the BHP had been designed first then I could see the 1911 sans grip safety as an evolution/improvement of that design.
 
Ed, that's kinda what I was thinkin...

Poor trigger. The cam operated bbl is a theoretical improvement, but I haven't seen any link operated bbls fail yet. Big size for power. Magazine safety.

Of course JMB was aware of dbl stack mags, M1918 BAR had one. The dbl stack is not an innovation, Mannlicher and Mauser had them before the 20th century. Including in their pistols...

My guess for the real improvement on the 1911 type is the Glock. Innovative material, striker fired, well executed rather than ground breaking design.

Why, Bartholomew, is Saive a genius? I would say Browning on his worst day did better than Dieudonne on his best. There has been a serious gap in firearms technology since JMB died. Everything since that time has been a refinement (or rehash) of something he built. I would love to see somebody come up with something truly a great leap ahead like when the Colt 45 Auto superseded the Peacemaker. Some day, somebody will. ;)
 
Why, Bartholomew, is Saive a genius? I would say Browning on his worst day did better than Dieudonne on his best. There has been a serious gap in firearms technology since JMB died. Everything since that time has been a refinement (or rehash) of something he built. I would love to see somebody come up with something truly a great leap ahead like when the Colt 45 Auto superseded the Peacemaker. Some day, somebody will.
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Well part of it is a matter of personal taste. I like the Hi-Power better than the 1911. Obviously some of the Hi-Power is influenced by Saive's own personal ideas though I am sure being able to life the ideas of his mentor after the patents died was helpful.

Second, you could argue that Saive doens't compare to JMB. JMB after all played a role in designing more historic firearms than practically anyone else alive. That doesn't mean that Saive isn't an incredibly gifted firearms designer though. The FAL alone is testament to that.
 
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