I have had this little rifle for 45 years and finally shipped down to FL where I live now. It was left to me when I was a kid by an uncle who passed on. It has no serial numbers, according to what I read on Browning’s site, they didn't start putting serials on their long guns until 1956. My best estimate would be that the gun was from around 1950. It is in pristine condition and has not been fired in 45 years and I don’t remember if I shot it or not as a kid. The receiver is silver with the gold trigger as they all seem to have been back then. The scroll work has the squirrels and prairie dogs with the goose or duck on top along with more scroll work on the trigger guard. The stock is checkered front and aft. I would like to get an idea of what this work of art is worth. I am not sure if I would sell it now, or hold it till the economy gets better. It's already been in the family for 60 years or so. Any help would be appreciated. Thanks
Browning 22 auto rifle grade 2
- Thread starter Gym
- Start date
Gym said:
While serial numbers were not required by U.S. law on rimfire rifles until after GCA '68, FN certainly serialized their rifles. They just don't have searchable records prior to '56. Have you looked on the butt or under the barrel on the front of the receiver under the forend?
[The FFL also agreed he saw no serial number ]
That's certainly no guarantee - as I've bought several different NSN (no serial number) firearms from different FFL/dealers, some with a SN in plain view on a barrel bottom or front receiver face, or that I've found inside later.
Many FFL's could be just as happy, selling sneakers - and have about as many clues as a sneaker salesperson.
.
That's certainly no guarantee - as I've bought several different NSN (no serial number) firearms from different FFL/dealers, some with a SN in plain view on a barrel bottom or front receiver face, or that I've found inside later.
Many FFL's could be just as happy, selling sneakers - and have about as many clues as a sneaker salesperson.
.
If you look at the Browning website it clearly shows where the serial numbers are. If the 22 rimfire auto is 60 years old it won't have serial numbers. This is according to Browning. Since I owned the gun for 45-46 years and my uncle bought it about 10-15 years before he passed on, it is pretty clear that the gun did not have a serial number on it. Why do some people refuse to read the entire post. I am just trying to access a value to it. I have seen them go for 2-3 thousand on Gun Broker. That's all I am trying to find out. Not if it had or didn't have serial numbers, Browning already took care of that. Oh and I didn'y buy the gun from the ffl, he just transfered it for me. Thanks to the first poster who took the time to actually read my post.
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Great little rifles! The only weak point was the takedown, which tended to wear after a while in spite of the takeup system. (The gun was designed in a day when train travel was common and a rifle that could be taken down was a more convenient package than a full length gun.)
The Browning and its Remington Model 24 twin, were probably the most reliable semi-auto .22 rifles ever made until the Remington Nylon 66, which copied the Browning feed system.
Jim
The Browning and its Remington Model 24 twin, were probably the most reliable semi-auto .22 rifles ever made until the Remington Nylon 66, which copied the Browning feed system.
Jim
Gym, if I may do so without offense, I would like to complement you on your rifle which appears to be in crisp mint condition. I see above that you feel that you have located the serial number so I will not address that issue.
I am curious if your rifle was signed by the engraver. This could affect the value of the rifle, which I believe you specifically asked about, substantially. I have one of these rifles and an "RR" is engraved into the the top of the receiver. These are the initials ("signature") of "Robert Risack" who was an engraver at Browning. A further discussion of Robert Risack or what other initials might appear in their stead is beyond the scope of this question. This signature, at least on mine, is about mid-way from front to back, as well as side to side. You have to look closely as it is amongst the other scroll work and easily over looked until you have seen it the first time.
The value of something is determined by how much someone is willing to pay and how much the owner is willing to accept. I am not trying to be smart, I am serious. However you can get an idea (after you determine if it is signed of course) by consulting a published book like the "Bluebook of Gun Values". Sometimes you can get a knowledgeable trader on a gun list (Like this one) but how does one know the level of expertise of the poster who responds and you might find that difficult now. Just for what it's worth (and I am no expert) if your rifle is signed, it might be worth $1200.00 - $1500.00........maybe more. You would have to locate a trader. Not everybody is going to want to buy a $1200.00 .22 cal rifle.
I hope this helps.
Good Luck,
PigPen
I am curious if your rifle was signed by the engraver. This could affect the value of the rifle, which I believe you specifically asked about, substantially. I have one of these rifles and an "RR" is engraved into the the top of the receiver. These are the initials ("signature") of "Robert Risack" who was an engraver at Browning. A further discussion of Robert Risack or what other initials might appear in their stead is beyond the scope of this question. This signature, at least on mine, is about mid-way from front to back, as well as side to side. You have to look closely as it is amongst the other scroll work and easily over looked until you have seen it the first time.
The value of something is determined by how much someone is willing to pay and how much the owner is willing to accept. I am not trying to be smart, I am serious. However you can get an idea (after you determine if it is signed of course) by consulting a published book like the "Bluebook of Gun Values". Sometimes you can get a knowledgeable trader on a gun list (Like this one) but how does one know the level of expertise of the poster who responds and you might find that difficult now. Just for what it's worth (and I am no expert) if your rifle is signed, it might be worth $1200.00 - $1500.00........maybe more. You would have to locate a trader. Not everybody is going to want to buy a $1200.00 .22 cal rifle.
I hope this helps.
Good Luck,
PigPen
Thanks, PigPen. Your posting sent me running for the safe since I'm
in an almost identical situation as Gym. Unfortunately, I found no
initials in the scrollwork where you described. My rifle is a few years
later but still a Belgian made original with the old style thumbwheel
adjustable sight. About a month ago, I managed to locate the fitted
case Browning made for this rifle in Charlotte, NC. It was used and
had some minor damage which the gun shop agreed to repair, but
they would not come down on their price.
in an almost identical situation as Gym. Unfortunately, I found no
initials in the scrollwork where you described. My rifle is a few years
later but still a Belgian made original with the old style thumbwheel
adjustable sight. About a month ago, I managed to locate the fitted
case Browning made for this rifle in Charlotte, NC. It was used and
had some minor damage which the gun shop agreed to repair, but
they would not come down on their price.
Bill DeShivs
New member
Pigpen
Mr. Risack would have had to work for FN, as the guns were engraved in Belgium.
Mr. Risack would have had to work for FN, as the guns were engraved in Belgium.
That's right. I thought that's what I said. At least thats what I meant to imply.
I agree, but I am pretty far removed from my sources right now and afraid to commit. In later years, the "T" would identify the product and the 46 the year but I am afraid to speak with certainty due to the lengthy time since I read it. Somewhere, packed up, I have a little brown booklet that covers that issue.
PigPen
Thanks for the valuable info guys, After looking with a glass for about ten minutes. I see a T in front of the trigger, In front of the trigger guard. "where it goes into the chamber. Also several letters and what I can best describe as hyrogliphics of some sort, on the cocking mechanism. It looks like a pattern of check marks and a V and a plus sign along with what could be an A & P. These are quite small and I needed a magnifying glass to see them. There also is a little insignia of some sort. They run linear up the cocking or charging piecon the bottom of the reciever. I still don't see anything where Pig Pen mentioned, I guess I am going to have to take this someware and get it appraised. The marks were definatelly engraved there for some reason.
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impalacustom
New member
The PV is smokeless powder marking, and the others are probably fitters, assembly and proofing marks. FN loved to get crazy with the stamps even way back in the 1900's.
thumbwheel sight
Does anyone know what year(s) the sa-22 came with the rear thumbwheel sight? I have a grade 1 sa-22 that belongs to a friend of mine and I'm trying to help her learn more about it. So far I have it narrowed down to a 50's era belgian rifle. It has no visible serial number on the right side of the reciever (the area listed by the browning manual as the serial number location) the number 1986 is engraved on the butt plate, the front face of the stock (only visible when disassembled from the reciever) and the 1986 and a "T" are engraved on the front face of the reciever and trigger group assembly. I'm assuming these are the un-published FN numbers like on the above rifle. It also has the heiroglyphs on the bolt surface behind the charging handle similar to the above rifle. This "1986" serial number also doesn't match any of the nomenclature described by the browning website
http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/detail.asp?id=5
and of course it says "made in Belgium" on the barrell. Also I have found no sign of an engravers signature, but could see that being a feature of the grade 2's and up...
So this is why I believe I'm dealing with a pre-1955 sa-22. Now I digress, I'm hoping someone can help me with some onfo on the thumbwheel sight, could that help to narrow down the possivble year of manufacture? Also there is no sign of any machining to accomidate a scope, could that help to determind the year or at lease a narrower range of manufacture?
Also the threaded portion of the mag tube is broken off so it won't attach to the reciever, I'm hoping I an just order a replacement tube to get the rifle back in working order, if anyone has any advice or warnings that it's not as straight forward as I'm hoping is welcome.
Also the front sight does not have a gold bead, it's just a simple steel blade.
Does anyone know what year(s) the sa-22 came with the rear thumbwheel sight? I have a grade 1 sa-22 that belongs to a friend of mine and I'm trying to help her learn more about it. So far I have it narrowed down to a 50's era belgian rifle. It has no visible serial number on the right side of the reciever (the area listed by the browning manual as the serial number location) the number 1986 is engraved on the butt plate, the front face of the stock (only visible when disassembled from the reciever) and the 1986 and a "T" are engraved on the front face of the reciever and trigger group assembly. I'm assuming these are the un-published FN numbers like on the above rifle. It also has the heiroglyphs on the bolt surface behind the charging handle similar to the above rifle. This "1986" serial number also doesn't match any of the nomenclature described by the browning website
http://www.browning.com/customerservice/dategun/detail.asp?id=5
and of course it says "made in Belgium" on the barrell. Also I have found no sign of an engravers signature, but could see that being a feature of the grade 2's and up...
So this is why I believe I'm dealing with a pre-1955 sa-22. Now I digress, I'm hoping someone can help me with some onfo on the thumbwheel sight, could that help to narrow down the possivble year of manufacture? Also there is no sign of any machining to accomidate a scope, could that help to determind the year or at lease a narrower range of manufacture?
Also the threaded portion of the mag tube is broken off so it won't attach to the reciever, I'm hoping I an just order a replacement tube to get the rifle back in working order, if anyone has any advice or warnings that it's not as straight forward as I'm hoping is welcome.
Also the front sight does not have a gold bead, it's just a simple steel blade.
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Browning Grade II
Most of the Browning Grade II and Grade III .22 Autos were not signed by the engravers. It is an uncommon gun that has any signing/initials at all. The serial number puts the rifle in 1959. In 1958 the serial numbers were put on the metal magazine stop, the trigger assembly, and the receiver. The numbers may not appear in all three places.
The wheel sight was used from 1956 to 1960. The rifles came with a 19" barrel. The rare number has a 19 1/4". Only about 100 of these were produced in .22 LR. The ultimate rarity is a Grade III in .22
Short with a 19 1/4" barrel. About 4% of all the .22 Shorts had the 19 1/4" barrel.
I am an avid collector of Browning rifles. I specialize in the Browning Hi-Power centerfire rifles.. I do dabble with the .22 Autoloaders.
I cite the info from Matt Eastman's book "BROWNING Sporting Arms of Distinction".
I have included a Grade III Automatic made in 1956 in the rare Coin Finish. The rifle is not signed. It does have a 19 1/4" barrel. the other rifle is an Olympian Grade rifle in .458 Win. Mag. It was produced in 1969 and id one of two made that year as an Olympian in .458 W.M. I bought the other one and the stock was broken in shipment. UPS paid me for the rifle but they kept it. Both of the rifles shown are NIB.
Jeff
Most of the Browning Grade II and Grade III .22 Autos were not signed by the engravers. It is an uncommon gun that has any signing/initials at all. The serial number puts the rifle in 1959. In 1958 the serial numbers were put on the metal magazine stop, the trigger assembly, and the receiver. The numbers may not appear in all three places.
The wheel sight was used from 1956 to 1960. The rifles came with a 19" barrel. The rare number has a 19 1/4". Only about 100 of these were produced in .22 LR. The ultimate rarity is a Grade III in .22
Short with a 19 1/4" barrel. About 4% of all the .22 Shorts had the 19 1/4" barrel.
I am an avid collector of Browning rifles. I specialize in the Browning Hi-Power centerfire rifles.. I do dabble with the .22 Autoloaders.
I cite the info from Matt Eastman's book "BROWNING Sporting Arms of Distinction".
I have included a Grade III Automatic made in 1956 in the rare Coin Finish. The rifle is not signed. It does have a 19 1/4" barrel. the other rifle is an Olympian Grade rifle in .458 Win. Mag. It was produced in 1969 and id one of two made that year as an Olympian in .458 W.M. I bought the other one and the stock was broken in shipment. UPS paid me for the rifle but they kept it. Both of the rifles shown are NIB.
Jeff
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22 short l lr
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Browning Auto-22 barrel lengths
Hi to all at FiringLine Forums,
In response to your statement. How are you measuring your barrels? ATF defines barrel length as measured from the face of the breech, cocked to the end. My '59 measures 19 3/8" which I see some 22 shorts having, but I'm assuming is really called 19 1/4" Where do you get your info as to these being rare?
Forgive me if I've broken any rules, but this thread is almost 2 years old.
Wayne
Hi to all at FiringLine Forums,
In response to your statement. How are you measuring your barrels? ATF defines barrel length as measured from the face of the breech, cocked to the end. My '59 measures 19 3/8" which I see some 22 shorts having, but I'm assuming is really called 19 1/4" Where do you get your info as to these being rare?
Forgive me if I've broken any rules, but this thread is almost 2 years old.
Wayne