I inherited a Browning 12 gauge 2 3/4" over-under shotgun and am trying to determine its value. The main reason for this is I would like to go hunting--turkey at first, maybe other game birds also--and am wondering if should I sell this one and buy something a little less 'nice'. I have taken the shotgun trap shooting and love it--I am comfortable and accurate with it, plus having a full and modified choke on one gun is a nice feature. Here are my concerns: that I would damage the gun or decrease its value by taking it hunting (getting it dirty or scuffed up--you tell me, I'm a newbie), and also visibility--would it help me that much to have a cammo shotgun? The shotgun is in good condition with the exception of some moisture damage to the finish on the stock near the recoil pad, and a scuff on the stock about 1" long and .20" wide at its widest, also near the recoil pad. I did not find a serial or model number, but "Made in Belgium" is stamped onto the barrel along with patent numbers and "Browning Arms Company St. Louis, Missouri". I installed a new recoil pad, but still have the old one. I also have the original padded case for the shotgun. I had the shotgun appraised, but I think they were low-balling me: they offered $425 and their reasoning was this: the recoil pad had been replaced (I even showed them the original, go figure), the gun shows handling wear, the front bead has been replaced, and the stock is cut--this last one is news to me, is there a way I can confirm (or disprove) this? I had originally heard the case by itself is worth a decent amount, so I am suspicious to say the least. So, any estimates on value or suggestions as to if I should keep this one for hunting or sell it and use the money to buy another shotgun and gear?
Browing 12ga from the 1950's
- Thread starter garymb
- Start date
dougmoss12
New member
how much are you asking for it might i ask???
nice gun though
nice gun though
It looks like a model that was produced prior to the current Lightning series as a field gun.
A fixed choke gun isn't as desireable as a gun that has screw in chokes. Only have 2 3/4" chambers is fine for targets - but a lot of guys want a 3" chamber for a field gun. A fixed choke gun is a little less versatile. It will probably be fine as a "pheasnt" or "upland bird" gun where you can shoot 2 3/4" shells.
In its current condition - the value in my area is around $500 -$750. If the stock has been cut / then it will be on the lower end in my opinion. The water damage on the stock can be a big issue - if its only on the surface its one thing / if its affected the integrity of the wood underneath, that's worse.
Are you going to hurt the value, if you scratch it up - yes. Wear on the barrels, receiver and wood will all affect the value. Can they be fixed - usually - but that costs money too.
measure the length of pull on the gun - from the front of the trigger to the middle of the recoil pad - what is it ? ( that will tell us if its been cut ). How long are the barrels ? ( that will tell us more as well / and may affect the value ).
A fixed choke gun isn't as desireable as a gun that has screw in chokes. Only have 2 3/4" chambers is fine for targets - but a lot of guys want a 3" chamber for a field gun. A fixed choke gun is a little less versatile. It will probably be fine as a "pheasnt" or "upland bird" gun where you can shoot 2 3/4" shells.
In its current condition - the value in my area is around $500 -$750. If the stock has been cut / then it will be on the lower end in my opinion. The water damage on the stock can be a big issue - if its only on the surface its one thing / if its affected the integrity of the wood underneath, that's worse.
Are you going to hurt the value, if you scratch it up - yes. Wear on the barrels, receiver and wood will all affect the value. Can they be fixed - usually - but that costs money too.
measure the length of pull on the gun - from the front of the trigger to the middle of the recoil pad - what is it ? ( that will tell us if its been cut ). How long are the barrels ? ( that will tell us more as well / and may affect the value ).
oneounceload
Moderator
If it's from the 50's then it will be Belgian superposed, looks like a nice grade 1 gun.
You can always use removable camo "tape" if you feel it necessary. I would hang onto it - current ones seems to be selling on the net for $1500 or so last time I checked. Add in the case for a few bucks more in value.
Belgian Browning barrels are some of the finest ever made - don't mess them up with porting, choke tubes and the like. As you said, it seems to pattern great.
KEEP THE GUN ...(or sell it to me for $425
)
You can always use removable camo "tape" if you feel it necessary. I would hang onto it - current ones seems to be selling on the net for $1500 or so last time I checked. Add in the case for a few bucks more in value.
Belgian Browning barrels are some of the finest ever made - don't mess them up with porting, choke tubes and the like. As you said, it seems to pattern great.
KEEP THE GUN ...(or sell it to me for $425
)I wonder if its really that old OneOunce ... The rounded pommel on the pistol grip doesn't fit with what I expect from a superposed model - even a grade 1 / but I'm not sure of the fitting or whatever it is on the left side of the forend either....
I'm no expert on the superposed models though either....and that fitting or screw or whatever it is on the forend may be the key to really identifying it...
If it is a superposed - then my values are off ... But if the stock has been cut ...and the water problems on the stock / a serious collector of the superposed isn't going to pay $ 1,500 for it either... in my opinion. I'll wait to hear length of pull ....and see if someone can say definitiely its a grade 1 superposed...
I'm no expert on the superposed models though either....and that fitting or screw or whatever it is on the forend may be the key to really identifying it...
If it is a superposed - then my values are off ... But if the stock has been cut ...and the water problems on the stock / a serious collector of the superposed isn't going to pay $ 1,500 for it either... in my opinion. I'll wait to hear length of pull ....and see if someone can say definitiely its a grade 1 superposed...
jaguarxk120
New member
Go on Guns America and lookup Browning Belgium shotguns, the $425 is a low ball price, they want to steal it from you.
Many shops will give what sounds like a reasonable price and know full well the gun is worth 4-6 times what they offer. The gun they steal will go into their collection or is sold at a high profit.
Many shops will give what sounds like a reasonable price and know full well the gun is worth 4-6 times what they offer. The gun they steal will go into their collection or is sold at a high profit.
oneounceload
Moderator
That POW grip style was made then Jim - that screw holds the forearm onto the barrels - not like the Jap Brownings, the barrels and forearms are taken off together
Here's one on GI for 1300:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Browning-Superposed-Grade-I-12-Gauge.cfm?gun_id=100112053
Here's one on GI for 1300:
http://www.gunsinternational.com/Browning-Superposed-Grade-I-12-Gauge.cfm?gun_id=100112053
I finally found the serial number, it was under the top lever and reads 19542. I did some research on google and it looks like it was most likely made in 1949 and has a long tang and round knob, and I double-checked the chokes and they are full and modified. Also the shop that offered me $425 did call it a Superposed model...they sure seemed eager to buy it off me, giving me the whole "this offer is for today only and not tomorrow" deal...
oneounceload
Moderator
Of course it is, cause tomorrow they know they'll have to add at least a "1" on the front of that, maybe a "2" or a "3".
RKLT (round knob, long tang) Brownings are very-well made, and that M/F combination will make it a great pheasant gun.
But if you REALLY want to sell it for $425, I'll take it.......
28" barrels are good for an all around gun ( but a little too short for Trap typically ). Personally, I use a 32" O/U for Trap - and a gun that is 2 lbs heavier than yours probably...or around 10 lbs - but that's just me.
I'm no expert in the superposed models ....I have all Japanese Browning Citori's made since the late 70's - but a 14" lengh of pull is pretty short ( 14 1/4" for a field gun is more normal / 14 3/8" is more normal for a target gun - at least these days ..). I don't know if its original / or if its been cut ...maybe OneOunce will know ? A person buying it could put an adj butt pad and / or a thicker recoil pad on it to lengthen it a little / or it will fit a young shooter perhaps ( I'm 6'5" and 290 lbs - its way too short for somebody like me )..
The shorter length of pull to me de-values the gun - and I think it reduces your market for a potential sale / and the fixed chokes as well ...and we don't know whether the water damage is surface or deeper. In my area, you would be very lucky to sell it for $ 900 - $ 1,000 or you would probably get about $ 700 if you were to sell it to a dealer - in my opinion. I can't see the photos that well - but if there are a lot of scratches on the barrel or the receiver and/or stock ... drop the value another couple hundred dollars ...
I'm no expert in the superposed models ....I have all Japanese Browning Citori's made since the late 70's - but a 14" lengh of pull is pretty short ( 14 1/4" for a field gun is more normal / 14 3/8" is more normal for a target gun - at least these days ..). I don't know if its original / or if its been cut ...maybe OneOunce will know ? A person buying it could put an adj butt pad and / or a thicker recoil pad on it to lengthen it a little / or it will fit a young shooter perhaps ( I'm 6'5" and 290 lbs - its way too short for somebody like me )..
The shorter length of pull to me de-values the gun - and I think it reduces your market for a potential sale / and the fixed chokes as well ...and we don't know whether the water damage is surface or deeper. In my area, you would be very lucky to sell it for $ 900 - $ 1,000 or you would probably get about $ 700 if you were to sell it to a dealer - in my opinion. I can't see the photos that well - but if there are a lot of scratches on the barrel or the receiver and/or stock ... drop the value another couple hundred dollars ...
jaguarxk120
New member
You have to look at it this way, you have become a caretaker of one of the worlds finest shotguns. It will hold it's own against everything out there, in the field the guys with the Citori's will want to see the father of there own o/u. Chances are it balances and swings better than anything you've handled before. The gun has a history as it belonged to a family member a new gun will not.
If you sold it the moneys you recieve can not buy what you have now, keep it.
If you sold it the moneys you recieve can not buy what you have now, keep it.
Values are tough right now - but in the last couple of weeks - a new shooter on this site ( Sig-9) I think - the thread is below a couple of pages - found a new Browning Citori Grand Sporter, as I recall - for under $ 1,800 - when they list for around $ 3,000 .... and all that affects the price of older guns as well - even the superposed models.
oneounceload
Moderator
That stock length seems a tad short from the normal length. IIRC, 14-1/4 to 14-1/2 seems about the right length. Whether it was cut aftermarket, or was factory done, I don't know. I suspect the former, maybe for a youth or small statured person.
Browning is the Fine
Tell those guys to get $425 worth of quarters, heat them red hot and put them where the sun don't shine. They are rip offs!!!! That is a fine shotgun, an example of the best made in its day. The wood most likely can be restored with the right oil (maybe Tru-oil, not sure) and some elbow grease, just post a question in the gunsmithing section. Or call Browning.
Go buy yourself a Mossberg 500 or 835, get whatever chokes you need. Watch pawn shops in hunting off season, they are great shotguns for everyday use.
I have one of each, tough and reliable. The Marine Corp. ran an endurance test, the 500 went 10,000 rounds of 00, 2 3/4" Express. Everybody else fell by the wayside.
This Browning should be in your estate. Never spend another dime with those so and soes.
Lee Jones(Celtgun)
NRA Life Endowment
NC Gun Collectors Life
Browning Collectors Life
Smith and Wesson Collectors Ass'n.
Tell those guys to get $425 worth of quarters, heat them red hot and put them where the sun don't shine. They are rip offs!!!! That is a fine shotgun, an example of the best made in its day. The wood most likely can be restored with the right oil (maybe Tru-oil, not sure) and some elbow grease, just post a question in the gunsmithing section. Or call Browning.
Go buy yourself a Mossberg 500 or 835, get whatever chokes you need. Watch pawn shops in hunting off season, they are great shotguns for everyday use.
I have one of each, tough and reliable. The Marine Corp. ran an endurance test, the 500 went 10,000 rounds of 00, 2 3/4" Express. Everybody else fell by the wayside.
This Browning should be in your estate. Never spend another dime with those so and soes.
Lee Jones(Celtgun)
NRA Life Endowment
NC Gun Collectors Life
Browning Collectors Life
Smith and Wesson Collectors Ass'n.
Back in the day, shotguns came with more wood. The length of pull was determined using a hard butt plate, in this case I believe it may have said BROWNING or had the FN logo. If you wanted a softer recoil pad, like those sold by Pachmayr, you had to remove some of the factory wood to maintain the length of pull. It was quite common the add a Pachmayr while at the same time removing the correct amount of wood to get the desired length of pull. Subsequent owners may need to add spacers or remove additional wood to obtain their desired length of pull.
It's not unusual to see these grand old guns with signs of having their LOP altered. If you don't want to sell it to oneounceload, I'll happily go to $426
It's not unusual to see these grand old guns with signs of having their LOP altered. If you don't want to sell it to oneounceload, I'll happily go to $426
I've had a couple of superposed's years ago / bought them used and they were decent grade 1 guns, similar to yours ....
Today I own about a dozen Citori's ( BT 100, XS Skeet, XT Trap, Lightning.....) and I understand some collectors think there is just something about the superposed that made it special ....but the new Citori's are not inferior guns in any way ... on swing, triggers, quality of the steel, quality of the wood, etc ... in my opinion.
A grade 1 superposed, with 28" barrels and a 14" lop, with fixed chokes and some stock damage that may or may not be significant ...is what it is...
To me personally, if I were a potential buyer (and I'm not) the gun in its current condition isn't worth much to me because it doesn't fit me - so I would not buy it for myself. I buy a lot of used shotguns and handguns / and a gun like this might be ok as a gift to a grandson, or as an extra training gun for new shooters ...but no changeable chokes limits its use even for that. If I were a buyer ....maybe $ 600 / $ 700 tops ... I'm not trying to be insulting ...just talking about other O/U's that are out there.
I bought a used Citori Lightning yesterday for $ 800 / wood is in good shape - with some surface scratches, no scratches on the receiver, barrels are tight, lockup is tight, 28" barrels - and it has the older Invector chokes - 12ga. It doesn't fit me either -- but I'm going to use it as an extra training gun for young shooters / maybe sand it and re-do the stock someday and give it to one of the grandkids down the road ..... I took the stock off it yesterday ( no internal rust ) ...firing pins looked good ... To me that gun was a better buy / than a fixed choke gun ....even if it was a superposed.
Today I own about a dozen Citori's ( BT 100, XS Skeet, XT Trap, Lightning.....) and I understand some collectors think there is just something about the superposed that made it special ....but the new Citori's are not inferior guns in any way ... on swing, triggers, quality of the steel, quality of the wood, etc ... in my opinion.
A grade 1 superposed, with 28" barrels and a 14" lop, with fixed chokes and some stock damage that may or may not be significant ...is what it is...
To me personally, if I were a potential buyer (and I'm not) the gun in its current condition isn't worth much to me because it doesn't fit me - so I would not buy it for myself. I buy a lot of used shotguns and handguns / and a gun like this might be ok as a gift to a grandson, or as an extra training gun for new shooters ...but no changeable chokes limits its use even for that. If I were a buyer ....maybe $ 600 / $ 700 tops ... I'm not trying to be insulting ...just talking about other O/U's that are out there.
I bought a used Citori Lightning yesterday for $ 800 / wood is in good shape - with some surface scratches, no scratches on the receiver, barrels are tight, lockup is tight, 28" barrels - and it has the older Invector chokes - 12ga. It doesn't fit me either -- but I'm going to use it as an extra training gun for young shooters / maybe sand it and re-do the stock someday and give it to one of the grandkids down the road ..... I took the stock off it yesterday ( no internal rust ) ...firing pins looked good ... To me that gun was a better buy / than a fixed choke gun ....even if it was a superposed.
oneounceload
Moderator
While my friend BigJim is correct in that the Japanese Brownings are no slouch in the quality of their materials and workmanship-, IMO - and again ONLY IMO, the Belgians beat the Japanese when it comes to the liveliness of the barrels and the pattern capability of their fixed chokes. These chokes are unusually long by comparison to today's guns, with long tapers and long parallels, making them pattern typically a little tighter than most others.
They are excellent guns, and as long as you do not need to shoot steel, will do wonderfully on clay or feathered birds
They are excellent guns, and as long as you do not need to shoot steel, will do wonderfully on clay or feathered birds