Quick question for you reloading experts. Going to reload some British 303 with Hornady 174 grain round nose sp bullets and would like to know what recommended OAL for the cartridge would be. Would you use the recommended max or something slightly shorter? Any help would be appreciated.
British 303 Reloading
- Thread starter zipspyder
- Start date
Slug the barrel first. Lee-Enfield barrels are not all .311" or .312". Hornady uses .312".
OAL is 3.075".
Go here for data. Mind you, it's not the only place. Your manual should have data too.
http://www.303british.com/id1.html
OAL is 3.075".
Go here for data. Mind you, it's not the only place. Your manual should have data too.
http://www.303british.com/id1.html
Very simply, measure the length of the magazine fore and aft. Seat the bullets so the cartridge will move easily up and down by the pressure of the magazine spring.
A cartridge loaded too long will not function in the magazine. It either won't load at all, OR, gets stuck and jams up the magazine. If single loaded, bullet seated too far out will jam into the leade and keep the cartridge from seating (and the bolt closing, and so on).
Loaded too short, the cartridge may not maneuver through the action (from the magazine, up the feed ramp and into the chamber) correctly.
ALSO, a bullet seated too deeply will constrict the 'burning space' of the loaded cartridge and raise the chamber pressure to some degree. (Less space means higher pressure, all other factors being equal). A bullet seated too far out increases the chamber size, lower pressure to some degree. Usually, this will not cause a serious condition in either event, but should be avoided just to contribute to uniformity.
Normally, the military standards for over all length assures the loaded cartridge will fit and function properly and safely in all arms (in this case, rifles and machine guns of whatever type) issued.
To confirm Mr. O'Heir's comment, the Lyman #50 gives 3.075 inches as over all length. And it certainly will not harm anything to slug the bore first.
A cartridge loaded too long will not function in the magazine. It either won't load at all, OR, gets stuck and jams up the magazine. If single loaded, bullet seated too far out will jam into the leade and keep the cartridge from seating (and the bolt closing, and so on).
Loaded too short, the cartridge may not maneuver through the action (from the magazine, up the feed ramp and into the chamber) correctly.
ALSO, a bullet seated too deeply will constrict the 'burning space' of the loaded cartridge and raise the chamber pressure to some degree. (Less space means higher pressure, all other factors being equal). A bullet seated too far out increases the chamber size, lower pressure to some degree. Usually, this will not cause a serious condition in either event, but should be avoided just to contribute to uniformity.
Normally, the military standards for over all length assures the loaded cartridge will fit and function properly and safely in all arms (in this case, rifles and machine guns of whatever type) issued.
To confirm Mr. O'Heir's comment, the Lyman #50 gives 3.075 inches as over all length. And it certainly will not harm anything to slug the bore first.
sorry, not quite correct.
MAX COAL (aka loaded length with bullet) is 3.075"
Every round ever made by every factory will be shorter than this length. Maybe only a very little, but they will be shorter, to ensure reliable function.
3.075" SHOULD function properly in every .303 and will when everything is in spec. Since the real world does strange stuff, factories always load at least a few thousandths shorter, just in case.
Loads that don't use the longest bullets are always less than max COAL.
Round nose are shorter that spitzers, for example.
I just looked in a Hornady book, the 174gr RN has a cannelure. Load to THAT, and forget about COAL (other than to verify its not over max length, and if you seat the bullet with the cannelure in the right place, it won't be overlength.
Hornady shows two 174gr bullets, the RN and a boat-tail spitzer. Both have cannelures, and the books says the C.O.L. for the RN is 2.945" and for the spitzer, 2.980"
Note how both are shorter than the MAX COL of 3.075".
You CAN load any bullet out to the Max COAL, and it SHOULD work through the action and not touch the rifling when chambered. SHOULD.
But there is no reason you HAVE to load to max length. This is going to sound like heresy to many, but the match shooter's "trick" of loading long, even right up to the rifling giving better or best accuracy simply doesn't work with every single gun out there. Some guns won't notice the difference, and a rare few might not like long rounds. And, of course, if you load too long to work through the action, you turn your repeater into a single shot.
here's another thing about the .303 British, if you are shooting a 50, 70, or 100+ year old milsurp, case life sucks, compared to regular sporting rifles.
The main reasons are that the .303 headspaces on the rim, and military chambers are "generous" to allow for "battlefield debris" and still let the weapon function. Some will also point to the rear locking action's "flex" but I think this is hugely overshadowed by the generous chambers.
In other words, they often cut the chambers sloppy big. Tight and right where the rim goes, "generous" where the case body goes. The effect this has on brass life reloading fired cases was never a consideration.
Not every .303 is like that, there is considerable variation. Commercial sporting rifles in .303 British have chambers that are cut to the usual commercial tolerances, and should allow longer case lives, but I don't have any personal experience in that regard.
Other things to consider, once fired brass may not be..
And, in .303 British, its not impossible for once fired brass to fail on its second firing. USUALLY doesn't, but I have had it happen.I only have a couple .303s, and don't shoot them that often, so my usual practice was to get once fired brass (if I could) FL size it (once) and only neck size every time afterwards. 5-6 loadings before failure was really good, 3-4 was common. Until the next batch of once fired brass gave me a total head separation on my first firing. (tip, if you don't have one, get a ruptured case extractor that will work for the .303. You may never need it, but if you need it and don't have it, you're done shooting that rifle that day.)
sorry for the rant. I love my .303s, but loading for the SMLE and Enfields , AND getting some acceptable degree of case life is more complicated than it is for many other guns.
Load the Hornady RN so the cannelure is in the right place at the case mouth. See how they shoot. Then, once you have a baseline, you can experiment with different (longer) length loads if you looking for more accuracy.
You MIGHT get it. You might not, or might not get as much as you hoped for. Milsurp .303s weren't match guns when new, and they are far from new these days.
Hope this helps.
Thanks for the clarification 44 AMP. I was looking at the dang wrong bullets for the British 303 COL in the Hornady manual. The bullets were listed below the synopsis vs. before and I was using the wrong 2.850" COL that was way to short when I loaded a dummy round last night. Stupid e-reader books lol.
To supplement 44 Amp's points, here is an illustration showing why different shapes have different overall lengths when their jump to the lands match. Seating depth often determines pressure except when people get very close to or actually make contact the lands. These conditions raise pressure.
In general, max COL is for bullets with the longest, sharpest ogives, with the extra long ogive VLD's being the exception in that they often have to be loaded longer than maximum and chambered singly (no magazine feed). Most normal bullets are shorter and the bullet maker's load data for your cartridge is then the best COL for published starting loads.
In general, max COL is for bullets with the longest, sharpest ogives, with the extra long ogive VLD's being the exception in that they often have to be loaded longer than maximum and chambered singly (no magazine feed). Most normal bullets are shorter and the bullet maker's load data for your cartridge is then the best COL for published starting loads.
nanuk-O-dah-Nort
New member
Deeper seating in bottle necks REDUCE chamber pressures.
This is incorrect, and the OPPOSITE of this is true, as proven by ballistic testing at Hornady.
As reloaders, we owe it to ourselves and others to correct old wives tales, so new reloaders can advance the art.
https://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal
This is incorrect, and the OPPOSITE of this is true, as proven by ballistic testing at Hornady.
As reloaders, we owe it to ourselves and others to correct old wives tales, so new reloaders can advance the art.
https://www.hornady.com/ballistics-resource/internal
OK, debating max OAL is not helping. Since I can't find what I need on the Internet (surprising) this is what I came up with in case anybody searches for it again.
I go right up to the land ring on the Hornady 174 gr. That is usually around 2.985"-2.990". That is working very well for me. I'm also using once fired Privi brass and a Lee classic loader only resizes the neck and not full case. I imagine if I used Hornady's OAL length in their manual it would be about in the middle of the bullet crimp (land) at 3.0945". My loads shooting are about what the book says with 43.4 grains of BL-C2 powder and 2450 fps avg.
I go right up to the land ring on the Hornady 174 gr. That is usually around 2.985"-2.990". That is working very well for me. I'm also using once fired Privi brass and a Lee classic loader only resizes the neck and not full case. I imagine if I used Hornady's OAL length in their manual it would be about in the middle of the bullet crimp (land) at 3.0945". My loads shooting are about what the book says with 43.4 grains of BL-C2 powder and 2450 fps avg.
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303: The first thing I do is decide on a plan that cuts down on all that case travel. I measure the case rim thickness, I am the fan of the thickest rim in the industry; problem, case ,manufactures do not form cases for reloaders that know what they are doing. That leaves me to controlling the length of the case from the shoulder to the bolt face, another problem, the 303 only has a hint of a shoulder in the chamber and or case. After all of that the next best thing that ever happened to chambers with slight shoulders is P.O. Ackley. If your chamber does not have a shoulder improve the shoulder it does not have.
F. Guffey
F. Guffey
PPU has some of the thickest cases/rims for the 303 (compared to US cases at least) but the only reason I chose those to reload was of cost of new ammunition. I'm not concerned about getting every last ounce of powder in the case and or accuracy out of my 303, just a consistent load for the casual plinking and deer hunting. I'm using the minimum recommended load of 43.4 grains BL-C2 for the Hornady bullet to get around 2450 fps and that's good enough for me. Accuracy with opens sights is very good as well so I can't complain. My gun seems to like the .312 bullets.