Breaking – Kerry coerced veterans to falsely testify of atrocities in 1971

P

Patrick Graham

Moderator
Not only did Kerry lie to congress in 1971 he forced others to lie also.

A combat veteran who testified to war crimes during the 1971 "Winter Soldier Investigation" has filed an affidavit claiming John Kerry and other leaders of Vietnam Veterans Against the War coerced him into making false claims.

Steve Pitkin, who was 20 at the time, says he rode from Washington, D.C., to Detroit in January 1971 with Kerry and another leader, Scott Camil, who had persuaded him to join in the probe that formed the basis of the future presidential candidate's testimony to the Senate Foreign Relations Committee later that year. .... ... "The VVAW found me during a difficult time in my life, and I let them use me to advance their political agenda," he said. "They pressured me to tell their lies, but that's no excuse for what I did. I just want people to know the truth and to make amends as best I can. I'd hate to see the troops serving today have to go through what Vietnam veterans did."
 
It's about time the Vietnam vets got some payback for what was done to them. Kerry going down in flames will be step one. Then, before the door on Vietnam is closed again, this whole 'atrocities' business needs to die the liars death it deserves.

- Gabe
 
"Winter Soldier Investigation"
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Ah yes! The Detroit "investigation" that was co-moderated by Monsieurs Kerry and one Al Hubbard - who it was later determined - lied about being a combat veteran in Viet Nam. Curious isn't it, that out of the thousands of disciplinary actions taken throughout the Viet Nam war (as is the case in any war as well as in peacetime) that not a single "Winter Soldier" that testified was or is known to have been involved in any of those disciplinary actions. One would think that people with a propensity to - as Monsieur Kerry puts it - carry out atrocities "... on a daily basis..." would also have been involved in at least one disciplinary action; for showing up late/hungover to muster if for nothing else. Nope, not a one. Must be that when they weren't busy killing babies under the watchful eye of the likes of Lt. (junior grade) Kerry, they must have been poster boys for good military order and discipline. It must be that with a role model like Kerry, they could not help but be shining examples for all to wish to emulate.

The same Kerry who as it turned out later claimed (on NBC's "Meet The Press") to have participated in atrocities himself. And yet Lt. (junior grade) Kerry never once wrote up a single one of his men, nor did he turn himself in for having committed/participated in said atrocities. In the Navy/Army/Air Force/Marines/Coast Guard we call that deriliction of duty. An offense punishable under the Uniform Code of Military Justice. Curiouser and curiouser...
"I was just going to show support for the guys who were already picked out to testify," Pitkin said. "Fighting in the war was terrible enough – I shot people – but I never saw any atrocities against civilians. The Vietcong hung up tribal chiefs and disemboweled them in front of their own families – they did that to their own people. I never saw Americans do anything like that."
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See!?! That guy must be lying! Everyone knows that the Communists are the kindest, sweetest, most decent human beings on the face of our fellow comrades' Earth! Such blasphemy! :rolleyes:

I wonder why it is that the media hasn't trotted out what is left of the "Winter Soldiers" so that all of them could spin us a yarn worthy of an Oliver Stone movie? Could it be that the few who actually were combat veterans would tell a different tale than the one they thought, as Mr Pitkin so aptly put it, would help them "... meet girls"?

One thing is sure, this hash is going to be settled once and for all. Too many honorable people were maligned; justice is demanded, and justice is a huge part of what this country is all about. If I were a 60s pinko, I'd be crawling back under my rock about now.
 
This is what I don't get:

I don't get it: Kerry's anti war activities are documented, some of his statements were made on film. Now somebody is saying Kerry "forced" him to lie. OK, maybe so. My question is: with all that ammo, why did the repubs need to hook up with that pack of liars in the swift boat ads? They have been thoroughly discredited, yet Bush fails to distance himself from what they have done. Why didn't Bush take the high road (and smart road) and look like a man with integrity and denounce them when Senator Mccain asked him publicly to do so?

http://www.tblog.com/templates/index.php?bid=SpyMaster&static=251665

McCain Condemns Anti-Kerry Ad

WASHINGTON (AP) - Republican Sen. John McCain, a former prisoner of war in Vietnam, called an ad criticizing John Kerry's military service "dishonest and dishonorable" and urged the White House on Thursday to condemn it as well.

The White House declined.

"It was the same kind of deal that was pulled on me," McCain said in an interview with The Associated Press, comparing the anti-Kerry ad to tactics in his bitter Republican primary fight with President Bush.



OK, fair and balanced. Another source has informed me that Bush has finally spoken against the ads.... a week after they had all been pulled off the air, and about a month after McCain spoke out against them. So Bush is trying to grab the moral high ground after they rode the ads for all they were worth. Sigghhh....

http://www.chron.com/cs/CDA/ssistory.mpl/politics/2753787

Bush denounces ad attacking Kerry
President's action 'too little, too late,' Democrats say
Associated Press


WASHINGTON -- President Bush today criticized a commercial that accused John Kerry of inflating his own Vietnam War record, more than a week after the ad stopped running, and said broadcast attacks by outside groups have no place in the race for the White House.

"I think they're bad for the system," added Bush, who had ignored calls to condemn the ad while it was on the air.

Democrats criticized the president's remarks at the same time they worked to limit the political damage from the ad which they denounce as a smear sanctioned by Bush and his high command.

"The moment of truth came and went, and the president still couldn't bring himself to do the right thing," Democratic vice presidential candidate John Edwards said in a statement. "We need a president with the strength and integrity to say when something is wrong."

"Too little, too late," added party chairman Terry McAuliffe.
 
My question is: with all that ammo, why did the repubs need to hook up with that pack of liars in the swift boat ads? They have been thoroughly discredited, ...
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By whom?
yet Bush fails to distance himself from what they have done
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Distance himself in what way? What are you talking about?
Why didn't Bush take the high road (and smart road) and look like a man with integrity and denounce them when Senator Mccain asked him publicly to do so?
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My guess would be that despite all of the leftist histrionics to the contrary, that Bush has decided that they have a right to their opinion. Something that John "Loose Cannon" McCain clearly does not believe.
"dishonest and dishonorable"
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Prove it. Senators McCain and Feingold - and to some degree President Bush - thought that their legislation would keep people from hearing anything that those in power did not want us to hear. They were wrong. Too bad, so sad.
"Too little, too late," added party chairman Terry McAuliffe.
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You mean Demonrat party chairman Terry "Global Crossing" McAuliffe. I guess if he says it it's fair and balanced.

Feh!
 
There was an interesting letter to the editor today in the Las Vegas Review Journal in regard to the Swift Boat ads. The guy said that maybe a lot of people are missing the point of those ads. Maybe they arn't pro-Bush as much as they are anti-Kerry. In other words, Kerry disgusts this group of Vietnam vets and they are speaking out against him; not for Bush. According to him, they don't want to see someone as Commander and Chief that sold his brothers down the river.
If that was in fact the case, Bush has nothing to denounce.

Not anything revolutionary, but a slightly different angle on a popular subject.
 
"Maybe they arn't pro-Bush as much as they are anti-Kerry. In other words, Kerry disgusts this group of Vietnam vets and they are speaking out against him; not for Bush. According to him, they don't want to see someone as Commander and Chief that sold his brothers down the river. "

Nice try, but if you follow the money from SwiftBoats it leads right back to a close associate of Karl Rove. Enough said. Bush may not approve this conduct directly, but he employs the man who does it.


WALLACE: Mr. Odell, I want to get into one last area with you. Senator Kerry says that your group is a front for the White House and is doing its dirty work.

A couple of specific questions.

One of your biggest funders, Bob Perry, is one of the biggest contributors in Texas to Republican causes and, in fact, is a close associate of Karl Rove, the president's chief political man.

Merrie Spaeth, who is a public relations consultant to your group, has been working for Republican causes for years.

You have met with either of them?

ODELL: I've met with Merrie Spaeth. I've not met with Bob Perry. I bought one of his homes several years ago.


http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,129590,00.html
 
Nice try, but if you follow the money from SwiftBoats it leads right back to a close associate of Karl Rove.
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If you follow the money past Rove for only five more degrees of separation, it leads directly to Kevin Bacon. :rolleyes:
 
Wonder why the mainstream media doesn't follow up on the dirty dealings of the DNC?
Consider the story below taken right off the democrat's web site tying the DNC directly to moveon dot org. LOL. I included the link to show none of the language contained has been changed! I will attempt to add color to one line to draw your eye to it :D
More hypocrisy from the democrats:




Http://www.democrats.org/news/200311140002.html

Of Holding Capitol Hostage for Their Right-Wing Agenda
Washington, D.C. — The Democratic National Committee (DNC) today announced a radio ad as part of its ongoing "Petition for American Values" campaign. Airing now in the Washington, D.C. metro area, the ad brings to light the Republican attempts to hold the Senate hostage so they can put ultraconservative judges on the federal bench.
The ad accuses Senate Republicans of holding the Senate hostage, "so they can approve Bush's ultraconservative judges…judges who threaten a woman's right to choose, threaten worker protections, public education, and our religious freedom." The ad also praises Democrats in the fight to keep our courts from being packed, saying, "Now, Democrats are standing up to say no. No, on turning back the clock on our most cherished values and no to rolling back a woman's right to choose and our civil liberties." The ad can be heard here.
The DNC is also conducting a major petition drive in partnership with MoveOn.org. More than 310,000 Americans have signed the petition to protect our courts — with more than 172,000 of those signatures coming in the past 36 hours. The petition calls on Bush and the Republicans to stop nominating judges that are out of step with mainstream Americans and praising the Democrats for standing up for their rights. The petition is located here. Here is a sampling of the comments posted on the petition:
Santa Monica, CA: We need fair judges who will support the Constitution and the Bill of Rights. Freedom from government repression is why our forefathers founded this country.
Dublin, OH: Please stop the veil of ultraconservatism from completely covering and overwhelming a country where it is becoming more difficult to voice opposition.
Park City, UT: Thank you for supporting our rights and freedoms.
Ann Arbor, MI: The courts must steadfastly support the rights of women and minorities, not undermine them.
Durango, CO: This might be the most important action you will ever take to save our democracy.
 
They have been thoroughly discredited, yet Bush fails to distance himself from what they have done.
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Bush distanced himself about a month ago. Having met someone does not constitute "being directed by" nor is it having been discredited.

Even if they were 100% directed and funded by the RNC, the Kerry's campaign has not addressed their argument, but simply waged ad hominem attacks as you have done.
 
Bush said weeks ago that he would like to see the end of ALL the 527's and their ads. I don't agree with that point of view, but since you do (at least, I assume you're not talking about muzzling the Republican groups and leaving the much more pervasive and better-funded Democrat groups unfettered?) I'm surprised you didn't notice when he said it repeatedly.

Also, the Swift Boat Vets have certainly been denounced, but I haven't seen them discredited yet. I haven't quite decided I believe them, either, and one or two of their allegations are irrelevant (I don't care how small the piece of metal in Kerry's arm was as long as it did in fact get embedded there by an explosion while he was fighting a war) but I haven't seen even one disproven. As a matter of fact, the only person I've actually seen proven to be lying in the entire Swift Boat Vets episode was Kerry, who admitted that he lied in his grandstanding speech about spending Christmas in Cambodia.
 
I'm surprised you didn't notice when he said it repeatedly.
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Don't be surprised Don. It's right in character.



one or two of their allegations are irrelevant (I don't care how small the piece of metal in Kerry's arm was as long as it did in fact get embedded there by an explosion while he was fighting a war)
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Purple Hearts are supposed to be given for wounds from enemy fire, not self-inflicted wounds, whether done accidentally or on purpose. They also have to require medical attention to qualify. Bandaids don't count.


Hmmm. Come to think of it, Democrats seem to like bandaids, don't they?
 
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